My student has been accepted to UA and has applied to both the Blount Scholars and the Witt Fellows programs. He is also very interested in joining a fraternity and having fun/being part of a brotherhood. There are many, many things he likes about the University but as a parent, I am having concerns about his interest in joining a fraternity there. It is my understanding that until 2013, the entire greek system there remained segregated and that even now, most houses are close to 100% white. My son has been raised north of the Mason-Dixon Line, and the âpowerful cultural leaningsâ of the south are not something he has encountered or can possibly understand. I was raised in the south and am only now, at age 55, beginning to understand the systemic barriers that have worked to keep entire groups of people down. My student is a fun, social, smart, athletic kid and I definitely want him to have fun in college. Can anyone out there tell me the truth about the frat system at UA-- can a northern kid join a frat that isnât gong to be filled with people who would love to âreturn to the old waysâ and instead filled with people who embrace, if not a progressive mindset, at least a tolerant one? And what am I supposed to make of âthe Machineâ-- Theta Nu Epsilon? That sounds super messed-up! Any insights are appreciated.
I think you should trust that youâve raised a good kid who is going to make good decisions.
I recommend reading all the essays by Anne Helen Petersen on substack about Alabama and the Greek system. My daughter was in a sorority at UA from 2018 - 2020 ( yes she dropped out) and confirms these essays are accurate.
Here is a link to part 5, with links to the other essays in the series
The more old row frats will be everything you fear, plus hazing. The newer frats which are seen as less cool, may be different. Those old row frats are likely to not even be interested in him as he isnât already known to them from high school/ church/ home town.
The Greek system at Alabama is largely conservative (incl preserving traditions as well as politically), and hetero normative. And conforming. Not everyone in the Greek system is like this, my daughter and her friends were certainly not, and there are houses with reps for being more progressive. But the overall vibe is like that.
However if he is interested he can go through rush when he arrives on campus and visit chapters he thinks sound good for him. He doesnât have to accept a bid. First semester is pledging and he will be busy with pledge duties. Blount will also put on programs and they area close knit group. He may decide he doesnât need a frat. He can still do tailgates and go to football without a frat.
Itâs also worth remembering that 70% of students are not in the Greek system, and that a lot who start freshman year in a house, drop out over time. Greeks dominate SGA but as my D says: they are so obsessed with not changing anything, that nothing ever happens so little point being involved - if your aim is to be involved and make a difference there are lots of other ways to do that!
My daughter had a very recent campus visit and one of the tour guides was in a fraternity and spoke about Greek life. He said fraternities are either âsouthernâ or âmixedâ, with mixed meaning northerners are included.
Youâre going to let him go away and he will need to make adult decisions. So at some point, you have to let him go, even if you donât necessarily feel comfortable with all of it.
My son was very aware that neither my husband nor I wanted him involved in Greek Life, but he really wanted to join a frat (not at UA). I told him I would not pay for anything above his normal costs for housing and food, etc⊠I also told him that he had to maintain his grades. That worked for us all. He paid all his expenses associated with the frat.
He loved his frat and doesnât regret it one bit. He has since graduated and has a good job, etc⊠I think most students end up joining a frat or sorority that is right for them. And if a certain frat or sorority doesnât want your kid, they are doing your kid a favor.
Your son sounds like a smart, responsible person. He probably knows a lot more than you would like him to know about what goes on in the world of Greek Life. Iâd just make clear what your expectations are, and have him learn as much as he can about what the various frats are all about. Also, he should know what is going to happen with hazing (as much as anyone can be aware, without actually being part of it.) Hazing is supposed to be a thing of the past, but I donât think it is, AT ALL.
Agree on the hazing. There are different degrees, but still, itâs there at pretty much every fraternity.
Very interested in this thread. My son might be attending UA and def wants to pledge a frat. We are also from the North.
We should stay in touch!
Great advice all around. Thanks. Youâre my fav Super Mod!
I think in addition to the usual parenting advice/teaching on substance abuse, consent, respecting other people, contraception, HIV, knowing when to call 911-- a parent of a kid contemplating a frat needs to double down on this. Of the last dozen frat-related tragedies across the country, I donât recall a single one that couldnât have been prevented. And there are hundreds of them that donât make the news.
My son joined a frat (not Southern) - I was aghast. It turned out to be a mostly positive experience, but after the fact, we heard aboutâ
Escorting/carrying a member to the ER and then a phone call to the parents-- âyou need to come and get your son, he needs a medical withdrawal and is refusing; please come get him for his own safetyâ;
Several underage girls who would habitually show up at parties already âpre-gamedâ and learning how to get campus police to drive them home;
Another frat in actual legal trouble (not just the usual warnings from university student life or whatnot) which really scared the other fraternities into walking the straight and narrow until graduation.
One mistake could cost a kid his/her life; one drunken sexual encounter could ruin a lot of lives. I still donât understand much of frat culture and frat life, but there are dozens of dangerous things that go on that have nothing to do with hazing (just routine Thursday/Friday/Saturday night partying) that are really scary.
Are you ready to be a grandparent? If not, you need really good, clear, explicit sexual behavior discussions with your kid. And both male and female students should NEVER accept a drink if itâs not from an unopened can/bottle. Men get roofied and raped too although it is considered under-reported to law enforcementâŠ
There are âgood fratsâ (oneâs youâd be happy for your kids to be a part of) and âbad fratsâ (self-explanatory). The few âgood fratsâ Iâve known of have been at small geeky schools (like WPI or Cornell College in Iowa). Usually, they are at schools without a big sports culture and have a ânon-traditionalâ view of Greek life.
I swore Iâd never join a sorority. My roommate and I went to open rush to see the houses and make fun of them and next thing you know, we found one we really liked. It was a good experience and gave me a home away from home, but it was at a Northern school with a very small Greek system. It was probably cooler NOT to be Greek. While I loved my time and still have a lot of close friends from my sorority girl days, I really did not want my kids to join. For girls, I feel like houses have become more concerned about their Instagram pages (especially down South) than sisterhood. My sorority sisters and I were looking at some of the pages at a recent reunion and were at first surprised, and then saddened, that girls were expected to spend so much money and look a certain way to be part of Greek life.
Knowing what went on behind the scenes of even a rather âtameâ fraternity from my ex and many of his friends, Iâd do everything I could to encourage my son not to rush.
A few bits of advise. If at all possible, wait to join and donât rush first semester. Figure out if you want to be in a fraternity/sorority and what kind you might click with. Look for smaller, lesser-known houses as their members tend to be there for the brotherhood/sisterhood rather than the reputation. At my sonâs school, many kids find a happy medium by joining a charitable or major-based fraternity. Or even just a club. It allows them to meet people and have planned social functions, but avoids hazing, forced housing, and discriminatory practices.
If they do join a house, by all means, do NOT allow them to be an officer. They will be pushed into it and told how great the leadership experience will look on their resume. It isnât true, and if the house is brought up on any charges, they will face additional liability and have their face plastered everywhere. Two friends have been through this with their children and it resulted in very expensive legal fees. (One for serving underaged students and one for sexual assault charges that took place within the house)
Another student I know went into school knowing they wanted to be a vet. They knew how important volunteer hours would be. Somehow, rush convinced her that leadership and being in a sorority would be a great thing on her applications. It was not. Sorority life ate up a lot of the time she should have been volunteering with animals rather than dance marathons and now 2 years later still has not been accepted to a vet school.
Just want to add to this very accurate post- parents often believe (or their kids have told them) that the national chapter âhelps outâ when thereâs a problem. The national chapter has its own risk management function and has its own insurance and has its own legal counsel on retainer. Thatâs for THEM- not for your kid. If the national chapter gets sued- the professionals spring into action. If thereâs a problem at your own kidâs house- youâre the one getting the phone call and making the necessary arrangements. And when the office of student life (or whatever itâs called) at the university tells your kid that itâs a disciplinary hearing, not a legal proceeding RUN and donât walk to hire a lawyer.
This isnât just for officers of the frat. Your kid could have been in charge of refreshments at a Halloween party where an attendee climbs on the roof and falls off. Yes, a prosecutor would need to prove that your kid knew the âwitches brewâ contained grain alcohol. But before it gets âprovenâ-- a world of legal proceedings. Presumably your kid doesnât want to spend the rest of his or her life explaining to a potential employer that he was found civilly liable but not criminally responsible.
Damn. How often does stuff like this happen? I feel like forbidding my kid from joining a frat after reading all of this
Iâd say that the majority of frats at larger schools that Iâve known of have had something that could have been a liability. Itâs just a matter of if they are caught or not.
Now Iâm rethinking all of this. I knew stuff like this happened but not with such regularity and frequency.
Two of my boys joined fraternities. The son at Washington & Lee is having a really fantastic experience and the hazing that went on was VERY light. No alcohol. This is my straight arrow son, of whom his brother said âhe has the strongest moral compass of anyone I knowâ.
Because W&L has something like 75% participation in greek life there is more variety; since these are academic kids, they all arenât becoming Animal House members. Thereâs more to it than that, but I donât feel like writing a novel tonight.
I only write this because you canât paint all fraternities with the same brush.
Iâm definitely not trying to paint all fraternities with the same brush, BUT, no matter how nice the kids are, there is still a liability issue. And sometimes, it all comes down to one bad apple, but it is often the house (meaning the officers) that gets dragged into it. Join at your own risk, but do NOT take a leadership position.
I read crazy hazing stories from all geographies and school types including Ivy. Some result in death or serious injury.
Kids need to know how to advocate and protect - no matter where they go.
Note that racial segregation in fraternities and (especially) sororities is not unique to University of Alabama or southern states. It is common (but not universal) at other campuses. You may want to look at chapter photos of chapters at other colleges of interest to see how much of a thing it is at those other colleges.
But on the other hand my son was president of his large midwestern fraternity, got a 4.0, got into vet school his first cycle, and his leadership let him make contacts that helped him to this day (graduated vet school this year).
He did pick a fraternity that met his values, didnât join til second semester (no rush for fraternities at his school). Even he said there were fraternities he would never join and chapters of his fraternity at other schools he would never be a part of.
Costs of southern greek chapters can be ridiculous! Midwest can be much more reasonable.
My son dated his sorority gf throughout, married her last year and she graduates as a PA tomorrow. Greek life for them was mainly positive.