I was going to mention USC and Rice, thank you, @MMRose!
My son was in the Columbia-Juilliard program - he was in the jazz program at Juilliard but knew a number of the Columbia-Juilliard students on the classical side. Heās now making a living as a full-time performing and teaching musician.
Iām sometimes reluctant to offer advice, as every student and situation is unique, but with that caveat, a couple of thoughts based on our experience with our son:
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I would encourage you to let him find his own way. (I think a few others in this thread have offered similar advice.) Be there to support, and to advise if asked, but ultimately itās his life and he needs to decide what direction he wants to take.
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Donāt be afraid of a gap year. My son took a year between high school and college, and while some of our friends recoiled in horror (only a slight exaggeration), it was an important year for his musical development. Iām not advocating it, just saying that itās there as an option and you shouldnāt be afraid of it.
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A dual degree program can be a great choice for a student who wants the full academic college experience in addition to the intensive music, but itās also a ton of work and requires a very high level of time management. For someone who is sure they want to make music their career, the music school / conservatory route is a more direct path.
Feel free to send me a PM if you have specific questions about the Columbia-Juilliard program - I can do my best to answer based on my sonās and his friendsā experiences.
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Hi everyone, I was hitting a wall with this project, and my son seemed reluctant to engage, so I read through this thread again a few times, did a lot of thinking, and I think Iāve had a good breakthrough (more on that below).
Iām noting for myself a summary of what is resonating from this thread right now:
WISDOM
āKids figure this out over time.ā
āIn this situation I do not think I would count on being done with paying for university after four years.ā
"I would never discourage someone who lives, eats and breathes music to major in something elseā¦if they want to major in musicā
"But just because you are good at something doesnāt mean you should pursue it.ā
"One more thing: no matter what he does, it gives him time to figure it out! I know kids who majored in something else and then got a doctorate in music. I know kids who majored in music and went on to either work or further study in another area entirely.ā
"I would encourage you to let him find his own way. ā
"Donāt be afraid of a gap year. "
PRACTICAL ADVICE
āmusic supplement with video/recording, music resume, and 1-2 music letters of recommendation (which can go beyond talent, and include work ethic, cooperation with others, width of interests, character and maturity etc. etc.)ā
āThe Rest is Noiseā by Alex Ross (contemporary music)
ācan apply to different options- conservatory/school of music, math BS or BA, double degree, double major, major/minor composition, conducting, piano, hornā¦and decide late in senior year.ā
āacademic music undergraduate degree. One option would be a BM in musicology or theory (or both). Another would be doing a BA in music (though colleges structure these very differently, so it would have to be the right program)ā
āMy kid made his matriculation decision based on the private applied teacher.ā
"I would recommend to visit each considered program during active semester (and visit classes, recitals) and consider fit first and maybe major second.ā
"In my experience, young musicians change their minds as they move through this process.ā
āThe next time of change is Freshman year. It is not uncommon for students to enter as dual degree and then drop one degree first or second year. . . .Thereās no shame in that. Itās part of the learning process.ā
"Parents, sometimes, have the longer view. So it can be prudent to recommend a school or two with a flexible curriculumā¦just in case. ā
"ask directly about double degree when talking to faculty and hopefully doing sample lessons. We got really mixed thoughts/feelings on this and some teachers even told my kid directly they limited or didnāt take double degree students into their studios. Some didnāt recommend it. Even at schools that broadly advertised double degree.ā
āTeacher fit is most important for success here IMO. Look at faculty directly and less at music program rankings. A lot of schools in range of major metros will have top notch faculty.ā
"The ābestā programs may not be flexible enough for a multi interested student.ā
"One strategy for grad school is to start the masterās in a fully funded doctoral program. You can enter with a masterās but you will have paid for it most likely! Also, especially with composing, your aesthetic may change away from the masterās you committed to as a double degree student. Choosing mentors via summer programs and developing a āvoiceā over undergrad years can mean going for a different kind of program entirely versus locking into a double degree. But there are obvious advantages to the double degree.ā
UPDATE
My son is not that engaged in the process, so itās tough to both keep it organized and let him drive it, especially because there are so many options! When I asked what he wanted, he would say 1. piano performance major 2. not conservatory 3. urban. That was pretty much all I was getting out of him.
He does not spend that much time on piano. Maybe 1 -1.5 hours most days. He gets a lot of mileage out of that time, but thereās only so much repertoire you can master at that rate. I have been asking - if you want to do piano performance, you probably have to up your commitment to it before getting into a program, not after. Enter competitions, play with an orchestra, etc. But based on his behavior, he doesnāt want that.
I felt like we were driving toward a wrong conclusion and I couldnāt figure out how to change my thinking.
On top of that, I was worried about his grades. He is taking the most challenging classes at high school, and his grades keep dipping, from 4.0 freshman year to 3.9 first semester of sophomore year to 3.85 second semester of sophomore year. In the first MID semester of junior year, he was at 3.75. I asked if he wanted to drop the class where he was getting a B+ (honors physics, which is notoriously hard at his school. Of the 17 kids who started only 12 remain). Especially because the school does not weight or offer AP. He absolutely did not want to drop it and says he likes challenging classes. Then the first semester junior grades came . . . 3.6. He doesnāt want a tutor. I never see him studying. But he doesnāt want to drop down. So I took all the competitive ivies off the list and puzzled over what was going on.
Then, I finally had a mental breakthrough after many long, long walks with my dog. I realized. . . he LIKES his life right now! He is happy! He loves his hard classes, he loves chatting with friends about politics at lunch, he loves going to Juilliard (French horn/composition) on the weekend and hanging out with other kids who know a lot about music, he loves doing piano, he loves having time left over for rock climbing and karate, and he loves hanging out with his family. All of a sudden I felt so much better! He doesnāt know what to say when I ask him because he doesnāt want to give anything up! YIPPEE!
I realized that the title of this thread is completely wrong. Instead of āTrying to narrow down options for music majorā it should be āTrying to keep options open for a kid who loves music.ā And as I re-read through, so many of you were already saying that -they change their minds etc.
So now Iām re-looking at all the colleges you all mentioned before with this in mind - which ones have good piano programs but ALSO lots of flexibility. Like Oberlin with the ālow wallā, BU (on a tour they said that you can apply to the conservatory and then fill out a form if you want to double major). I have relaxed so much and I think he will respond better when I can put good options in front of him where itās flexible instead of constricted. And someone mentioned just applying to a bunch of different things and letting him decide end of senior year, so that makes a lot of sense.
Thank you!
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I can change the subject if you would likeā¦or you can do it.
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Great new thread title idea!
Keeping options open is a good way to look at things. Keeping flexibility in his college list sounds like exactly what he needs.
Best wishes to you and him. Heās going to do great wherever he ends up!
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Thank you! I tried to edit but I am not sure how . . . I think what I would like to do is this: instead of changing the title, add so short PP at the beginning of the first entry that says this:
January 2024 update: After wisdom and helpful input of CC members, and several months of chewing this over, Iāve realized that what I am looking for is not to help him narrow down his options, but rather to keep as many options open as possible for a student who loves classical music and many academic subjects, and doesnāt want to give anything up. Keep reading to see how that evolved!
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You added that here. Itās way too late to edit your r original post to this thread. Someone already edited the thread titleā¦does that work for you?
Ah! I misunderstood. And I didnāt/donāt see the title change - on my screen it still says āTrying to narrow down options for music majorā although on the forum list it is in light text not bold. I wonder why? Maybe if I log out and back in again it will change. Itās no big deal, Iām happy with whatever title and if anyone takes the time to read through, they will see the change in perspective easily enough. Thanks for your help.
You are right. So would you like the subject changed to something like ātrying to keep options open for a music majorā or something like that? I thought it had been changed!
That sounds good! Thanks!
Check and see if what I changed it to makes sense! I completely understand what you mean, but I want this to be yours!
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Itās just right, thank you.
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Hereās a March of junior year update. I think we have hit a good groove and a good mindset, and the college visits are starting to make a lot of sense. I re-read the list I made again of wisdom and practical advice. There is so much collective thought that is SO helpful! There was no way I was going to take it in on the first read, but going back from time to time and re-reading the initial thoughts - it is now making sense. I find myself nodding along and thinking āYes! How did I miss that the first time, this person is so right.ā Maybe by the end of the process the thinking will be in my bones and Iāll be able to GIVE good advice 
But not yet, Iām still mid-process and absorbing the wisdom.
My current understanding of what my son is and wants is this: he is multi-interested. He loves engaging academic classes across a wide range of topics, he loves conservations with friends about different topics, he loves being in a musical environment with other kids playing at a high level. He wants to re-create this experience in college: a college campus, a piano performance major, ideally in an urban setting (he likes to go to concerts and take walks around the city). As for me, I am eager to help him re-create this life with many possibilities rather than focusing, and I understand that he may change his mind several times and may do degrees in vastly different areas. Flexibility is key. (I know Iām restating what I have already written, Iām using this post as a kind of summary journal).
Search focus:
Excellent fit of teacher. He has had the same piano teacher all his life other than at summer camp.
We are looking at dual degree programs (i.e. Johns Hopkins/Peabody, U of Rochester/Eastman) but increasingly I see the value of schools where the conservatory or music school are more tightly integrated. If nothing else, geographically. Itās so much easier to go from a music class to a math class at BU than at NEC/Tufts. Good geography makes a big difference.
Within the dual degree program, a good math department. He may change his mind but right now thatās the second degree heās interested in.
We are focusing our visits on Likelies and Targets because I want to make absolutely sure he will be happy at any of the schools on his list. So we are spending the Junior Visit Day and fall Visit Day of senior year at a likely and a target. But we are visiting a lot - I think everything on the list below - to make sure there is a teacher there he likes.
Stats
Unweighted 5 semester GPA is 3.8 with rigorous classes
SAT was 1530 at the beginning of junior year (780 English 750 math). Heāll take it at the end of junior year and the math is likely to go up
Private piano is high level repertoire - he recently gave a one hour solo recital and he has won some minor competitions
Juilliard precollege for French horn and composition
His teacher recommendations should be great - very positive comments on reports and conferences, and they know him well.
School Visits
We did some Boston visits in the summer, but now I understand they were not that useful, because we didnāt visit the music school and he didnāt have a trial lesson. We will have to re-visit BU to specifically go to the conservatory and do a trial lesson or sit in on a lesson.
Indiana University Jacobs School in Bloomington was GREAT. The program is large (800 undergrad and 800 grad). There are many performing spaces. There is an honors college which he could participate in if he wants to where he would be with other kids with keen interests in other areas. The Met Opera is doing a joint production with Jacobs - they are working out a new opera which will then come to the New York stage. He had a fantastic trial lesson with a piano teacher.
CMU was a no. They have a good reputation with other areas of arts but the piano aspect was not a good fit. The music department was tiny, didnāt seem that vibrant, didnāt have a strong classical feel. The piano teacher didnāt respond to requests to sit in on a lesson or trial lesson.
Oberlin was fantastic. Their Junior Visit Day was exceptionally well organized. He went to a music theory class and sat in on a lesson with a piano teacher (his teacher at home organized this because she knows the Oberlin teacher). We also contacted the math department and they let him sit in on a class and had someone meet with him afterwards.
Tentative list (his College Kickstart account is up so the categories are from that)
Unlikely - Yale (he may not end up applying there but his piano teacher knows many faculty and wants them to meet with him), Johns Hopkins (though that may come off)
Reach - Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Rice, UNC - Chapel Hill, NYU, Tufts, USC
Target - McGill, Michigan, BU, U of Miami Frost
Likely - Oberlin, Indiana Jacobs, Rochester, Bard
Questions
UCLA is coming up as an unlikely, we canāt get on an organized tour, and it seems like a lot of effort for not a lot of payoff. We are going to visit USC Thornton so at least Iāll get a sense of whether he likes California. Does anyone have a sense of whether we should work to keep UCLA active, or just let it go given that he has a good list?
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The only issue with your list is that he has no music safety and the academic schools are all reaches. If he lked Oberliin perhaps add Lawrence or St. Olaf?
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Iām not sure there is such a thing as safety schools for the music part which requires an audition.
At some schools, the academic bar for music performance majors is relaxed a bit. The audition is what matters.
Re: the auditionsā¦remember, your studentās audition will be compared to others auditioning on the same instrument. There is no way to predict the strength of those doing auditions from year to yearā¦thusā¦a safety really canāt be determined for music performance.
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Agreed but this is a reach only list. Just suggesting to OP that they should consider some music programs with less intense audition stats and some academic safeties.
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I looked back at my previous post so I wouldnāt repeat myself I would still say that a kid like your son might look at a BS program in math, and do music lessons and extracurriculars. At a school like Yale, Harvard, Princeton, MIT, that would be very possible. Those schools have high level musicians.
For double degree, he has good choices. Bard, Lawrence, Oberlin are often mentioned. But is he clear on piano focus? Will composing come more into play? By the way, Walden still has openings!
A BM is 2/3-3/4 music classes. A double degree would give the latitude for math but would a BS and a BM be too much?
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Agreedā¦I donāt think most of these ARE reaches academically for this particular kid if the music school wants him. My son is at Blair/Vanderbilt with nearly identical stats (he had the exact same SAT score, right down to the breakdown, in fact, IIRCāwhich, incidentally, is helpful at Vanderbilt because a 780 EWR lets you place out of one of the two required writing-intensive classes), but Iād have been shocked if he got into Vanderbilt based just on academicsā¦just because the admission rate is so low. But I wasnāt at all worried about the academic side if Blair wanted him, because he was safely in range. So I would say the trick is finding a likely music admit where he wouldnāt be compromising overmuch on academics. Agree with Lawrence and St. Olafā¦in fact, those are currently sitting at the top of the list for my senior son whoās (sorry, kid) probably a step down musically from his older brother right now and didnāt pass prescreens at Oberlin and Blair.
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@Caliban1 if he does choose a BS with music lessons and extracurriculars, it is advised to see whether a school that does have a BM program prioritizes the BM students. In other words, while schools āknown for musicā will be suggested, some of them should actually be avoided if he doesnāt do a BM.
I know you wrote he is headed for a BM in piano or double degree, but just in case he changes his mind.
Schools like Oberlin and Bard have a ālow wallā between college and conservatory and Oberlin added the BA āMusical Studiesā in recent years.
I know kids who didnāt even major in music, who went on to grad school and now have full-fledged careers in music. Just want to, again, say that the path can be flexible. āPiano performanceā is not often offered in a BA or BS degree but lessons and continued performance, as well as summer programs, can serve some multi-faceted kids well. Composition is always part of a general music program.
ah! I think I see your point. I was relying on Kickstarter for a balanced list (at his school thatās defined as 3 likelies, 3 targets and up to 8 reaches), but it only has general information for kids from his high school with GPA and test scores. Itās not that useful for the schools of music and even less useful for piano studios. And @thumper1 while the academic bar may be relaxed for music students as long as their audition is good, which would help at the reaches, the chance that heās one of the top handful of piano performance applicants is unknown at any of those reaches.
@compmom I donāt think his 3.8 GPA puts him in reasonable standing to apply to HYP etc (except Yale to satisfy his teacher), if for no other reason, he has the dreaded private school polish and is competing within his school with legacies etc. Iāve watched how he spends his time this year; when he has free time, itās piano not composing. He does like doing it for his classes but I donāt think itās a focus for the near future and at the moment itās not how he thinks of himself primarily (that could change of course). He meets up with his Kinhaven besties regularly and they have prank plans already brewing for this summer. We will add Lawrence and St Olaf to the list. And he does seem determined to do a piano performance major at this point, but you are right - who knows what he will want during his freshman and sophomore year? So I will think about academic likelies and targets that have a strong music component but flexibility.
Edited to add - If he wants to apply to HYP and similar thatās fine, I wonāt tell him no, and he knows some have good music programs, but if he brings it up Iāll just say something like thatās a lottery ticket, feel free after you finish the applications to the balanced list. Does that sound reasonable?
@kokotg thanks, thatās a helpful perspective. Itās all about the audition and there are so many audition unknowns.
Thank you everyone! The feedback is helpful. Iām going to add a couple of likelies and targets which have good music programs but donāt rely on audition, so the Kickstart ratings will be accurate. Maybe Iāll keep two lists? An academic/kickstart list and a list which is rated by you all for audition schools?
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