Do they go to the protest marches and risk injury? Or go and hope that the marches won’t turn violent?
My take is that offensive groups gain oxygen by fomenting news coverage. If they were just ignored, they’d go away and fade away. These people are a mob, mobs are irrational and irrational people cannot be reasoned with. Minds won’t be changed from confronting them. Shouting in the streets at each other is stupid and just begets violence and more hatred.
The place to protest is the ballot box.
Had they taken your advice, things in Charlotte would be different this morning.
@dietz199 I guess you mean Charlottesville, not Charlotte?
@TatinG I told my son that ultimately this is a very small number of people getting exactly the publicity they want. I do not think they should be ignored but they do not deserve the coverage.
What do you do? There were some counter-protesters where I was yesterday, including a woman standing by a police car holding a sign that said “Blue Lives Murder”. I ignored her.
We used to ignore our kids when they were having self-indulgent tantrums, I’m inclined to do the same with most people acting out for attention.
White supremacists in this country are not a small group of people. It is active, they are recruiting and growing. To think (hope) it will go away is naive, IMO.
Often, the presence of counter protestors isn’t to change the mind of protestors. Unlikely to happen. It’s to remind other people - decent people, minorities, those targeted - that they aren’t alone and that there are many who support them and don’t buy into the crap.
“Had they taken your advice, things in Charlotte would be different this morning”
Don’t create scapegoats. Blame the racists.
We’ve been doing that for decades. What’s happened? They’re growing.
I participate in protests. I would duck out at violence. In a wheelchair, I’m not able to defend myself and people are likely to hurt themselves trying to help me so I’m out of there.
I’ve been to dozens and dozens and dozens of protests- many on campus. Not one had violence. These are an extreme aberration.
But I’ve been going to marches, rallies, and protests with my dad for as long as I can remember. I will continue to do so.
Yes…sorry,…Charlottesville…
@doschicos So how many white supremacists do you think there are in the US? Clearly, even one is too many and we have more than one, but I do not think there are as many as you seem to but I would like to see your estimate and source.
I tried to find a quick estimate but only saw klan having 5k-8k on wikipedia. Presumably the overall numbers are dwindling each year.
There was an article in the local paper about the Charlottesville demonstrations. After laughing out loud at one paragraph I looked to see who the reporter was, but there were multiple sources listed and I don’t know who wrote it.
"“We are assembled to defend our history, our heritage and to protect our race to the last man,” Von Kotch said, wearing a protective helmet, sporting a wooden shield and a broken pool cue. “We came here to stand up for the white race.”
No crowd of sign-carrying, slogan-chanting counter-protestors could do a better job of pointing out the yawning gap between this guy’s delusions and his reality than the deadpan observations of this journalist. So more acts of journalism would be welcome. Letting some of these losers speak for themselves does wonders.
Yes, losers and fools can still be dangerous, but protests and shouting matches leave me disliking both sides. Thoughtful ridicule is more my cup of tea.
I admit, I reminded my kid last year that her health insurance did not cover injuries incurred in a riot. I also sent her an article with tips to stay out of trouble if she decided to attend a protest – like stay not far from an outer edge so she can get away if needed and not get trampled in a crowd. So I didn’t tell her not to go, but we did talk about safety.
Both my kids attended marches last year in their respective cities for a couple different causes (one went with me to one of them), but the one in college stayed away from campus protests.
“I tried to find a quick estimate but only saw klan having 5k-8k on wikipedia. Presumably the overall numbers are dwindling each year.”
The KKK isn’t dwindling but you also need to account for the many, many new groups that are popping up called something else, actively recruiting online (sound like the Islamic extremists? It is.), “hiding in plain sight” by sporting stylish haircuts and sharp clothing. This isn’t the hood wearing KKK or skinheads of the past. Much more mainstream. Some like the Proud Boys have been labeled as Alt-Light but still spew White Nationalist speech.
Read up. Plenty online.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40915356
https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/white-nationalist-movement-twitter-faster-growth-isis-islamic-state-study-a7223671.html
http://www.pennlive.com/news/2016/02/hate_extremist_groups_rise_14.html
https://www.wired.com/2017/05/field-guide-far-right/
They aren’t going away. They’ll feel zero remorse for any deaths - police or civilian. Their goal is a race war and they’ve been stockpiling, recruiting, and training. Don’t underestimate them. Some have infiltrated the military and law enforcement.
This turned out okay at Auburn. They allowed Richard Spencer to speak because they didn’t know who the speaker was - a 3rd party group booked the hall and then didn’t tell the school who the speaker was until a day or so before the event. Auburn then canceled it for security reasons but then it was overturned by the courts (they knew it would be). They allowed Spencer to speak in an enclosed room with a maximum audience allowed based on the room size and take questions and answers in an orderly fashion…there was some yelling out and asking questions without standing in line but it was pretty well managed. My son was working the facility where Richard Spencer was speaking just before his event started. When his shift was over he went outside and stood among the students, most peacefully and quietly protesting the white supremacists who were bussed in from outside the area and trying to antagonize the protesters. One of the white supremacists got into a scuffle and was arrested with a bloody face…everyone disbursed and fortunately, it’s been quiet on campus. I hope they don’t come back to this friendly and peaceful place.
Probably not many hard core ones that wear hoods and wave Nazi flags. But enough to cause a bunch of trouble.
But there are probably more less extreme ones than most people think, since most white people in the US are at least somewhat worried about white people no longer being a majority in the US in a few decades.
While I would be frightened for my son’s safety if he participated in a peaceful protest against racism, anti-Semitism and jingoism, and overall would prefer he stayed away and chose another way to support his cause, I don’t think I could tell him not to try to make a difference in the world. It would be his choice, and I would remind him to be watchful of his surroundings and stay safe.
I am reminded of Niemoller’s poem:
“First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out–
because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out–
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out–
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me–
and there was no one left to speak for me.”
The mayor asked people of good will to just go home.
“since most white people in the US are at least somewhat worried about white people no longer being a majority in the US in a few decades.”
Really? Is this an actual thing with proof? Not among my family and friends who are white. No worries.
I would agree that the number of white people that want to stay a majority is probably a large number and I did see that the number of groups that can be considered as white supremacists has risen but I have not seen anything to indicate the the actual numbers of white supremacists “are not a small group of people. It is active, they are recruiting and growing”…
Perhaps I am naive but I like to think this is a problem that is dying out.
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
@yearstogo All evidence I’ve seen points to the contrary, that it is not dying out but growing. Can you cite articles that speak to a decline? Did you read the articles I linked? BTW, by all reports, it is not only growing here but in many European countries as well, hence the rise in populist and even fascist political parties and leaders.
How do you define a “large number”? Any number is too large for me and growing, more organized numbers are a concern.
In the late 70’s or early 80’s there was a KKK rally in Austin. A girlfriend and I just happened to take that weekend for a 'get away" from Dallas and asked why all the police were blocking off the Capitol area. They said they were setting a safety perimiter for the KKK group rally. The only observers of the KKK rally were the KKK rally members. Everyone else was blocked out of the perimeter for the rally group’s safety. I know that’s probably not right, but still makes me smile. No issues that day.