<p>Being an intellectual and enjoying sports are not mutually exclusive. </p>
<p>bluebound, one thing you will learn at Michigan is that saying “it is obvious that” or “everyone knows that” or “that is the way it is–period” won’t make a statement true. </p>
<p>Germane to the topic of the thread and the OP- who is attending UM and not NYU, and asked for support in that- UM is the #4 ranked public university in the same survey you now quote in every post, and consistently ranked as a top university worldwide in other surveys. That’s not exaggerated. 
</p>
<p>Also, when pretending to be a teenager, it would be best not to use words like “stoked”. Because in 2014? Not particularly part of the current teen lingo. </p>
<h1>helpfulhints</h1>
<p>“None of my remarks are disparaging.”</p>
<p>You may not realize this, but saying that Michigan is not as good as any of the universities ranked above it in the USNWR is disparaging. People like me happen to believe that Michigan is one of best undergraduate universities in the US. That is why, as an OOS student, I chose it over other top universities, including several that are ranked higher in the USNWR. Knowing what I know today, I would still make that choice. </p>
<p>“I’m actually stoked to be headed to Ann Arbor.”</p>
<p>Really? You could have fooled me. </p>
<p>“People like you all and the sports groupies are the only turnoffs, to be honest.”</p>
<p>You should not be stoked about going to Michigan. You are bound to run into a lot of people who take pride in attending Michigan and/or “sport groupies”. In fact, those types make up the majority of students at Michigan. You are likely to be miserable at Michigan if you cannot stand people who enjoy Michigan athletics or who actually think Michigan is a great university.</p>
<p>“UMich undergrad is a great in-state public school value. If we didn’t live in Michigan, I would never pay oos tuition to go to such a huge public school, if provide higher ranked options.”</p>
<p>Why let that get in the way? You were recommending that the in-state student who started this very thread go to NYU over Michigan, even if it costs more to attend. Why not follow your own advice and go to an out of state private?</p>
<p>“Everyone knows UMich undergrad is biggest safety for oos wealthy students that can’t get into any of the higher ranked private schools they applied to (or Cal/UCLA in Cali cases).”</p>
<p>Last year, thousands of OOS students with excellent credentials were rejected by Michigan. Among them, I know of several who were admitted into Ivy League schools. For OOS Michigan is not a safety school. I am sure many approach Michigan as a safety, but many of them will be shocked when they receive that proverbial thin envelope in April. At this point in time, Michigan is a target for OOS students with 3.9+ unweighed GPA AND 2200+ SAT/33+ ACT scores. It is a reach for all other applicants. An OOS applicant with a 3.8 unweighed GPA and a 2100 on the SAT / 31 ACT should consider Michigan a reach.</p>
<p>“People, especially wealthy people willing to pay OOS for a state school, generally go to the highest ranked school they get into.”</p>
<p>That is correct. But you are assuming that the USNWR is the only ranking people consider. Most parents do not rely entirely on one ranking. They look at several rankings and they ask around too. Outside of the US, the USNWR is not as commonly read as other international rankings. Most families also realize that when you have thousands of universities, schools within a few spots of each other could be equal. In some instances, the lower ranked school could be stronger. Many would believe that Stanford is better than Columbia or that MIT is better than Chicago. Most would agree that Brown and Cornell are better than WUSTL. etc… </p>
<p>Most people also take strength of departments into consideration. A school ranked #25 will be more appealing than a school ranked #15 if the student wishes to major in Engineering and #25 has a significantly stronger Engineering program than #15. Most wealthy people are highly educated, and educated people hold Michigan in high esteem…certainly on par with many schools ranked above it in the USNWR. According to a poll conducted in 2003, Michigan was rated higher than all but 7 universities (all but 4 universities among the most educated segment of the population). Many educated people know more about universities than the USNWR. With so many opinion polls ranking Michigan in or around the top 10 undergraduate universities (including ones conducted within academe), it is clear that many people do not agree with the USNWR ranking.</p>
<p><a href=“Harvard Number One University in Eyes of Public”>http://www.gallup.com/poll/9109/harvard-number-one-university-eyes-public.aspx</a></p>
<p>In other words, think long and hard before telling someone who chose to attend Michigan, and there are literally thousands who choose Michigan from a range of excellent universities, that it is barely a top 30 university. You may not think it “disparaging”, but to her/him, it is.</p>
<p>Alexandre is right on the money.</p>
<p>@bluebound18. You may be young and talented. However, you have A LOT to learn about the world outside of high school. I’m not saying you are stupid, but you make a lot of ignorant comments.</p>
<p>“So I should get used to defending common knowledge that is denied by agenda driven people who want to make their #28 ranked (public) undergraduate college sound more spectacular than it is? Duly noted.”</p>
<p>1) I’m not sure why “(public)” is in the above: Michigan is ranked #28 in a ranking which includes both public and private schools; and as to “undergraduate college”…there is an undergraduate division which comprises both schools and colleges; LS&A is the CLA at Michigan, but there are other undergraduate entities to which the ranking applies;</p>
<p>2) as to the #28 ranking, USN&WR has done away with strict cardinal rankings thus recognizing that the numerical differences suggest a spurious difference in quality; in fact there are roughly 13 to 14 ties in rankings above Michigan, it is probably much more accurate to say that the UM ranking is 15th or so when creating an ordinal ranking of cohorts which differ by fractions of points on the numerical side…if I rank 3 schools #3, I should rank the next school #4, not #6;</p>
<p>3) Michigan’s ranking is non-convex to the actual metrics: a faculty which is ranked top 5 for prizes, citations, research; a student body which tests out above the 35th percentile as Ivy; a 7th ranked endowment; a physical plant which is 2nd to none for breadth, quality, cutting-edge equipment; a “AAA” bond rating; academic departments at the undergraduate level which rank in the top10 (40 such programs) where the bulk of the students are actually in departments in the top 5 in the country, and certainly no lower than 15th or so; </p>
<p>Because of this non-convexity given faculty, campus, students, the USN&WR ranking is a bit of a joke. It is interesting to note that ALL of the GLOBAL rankings rank UM higher GLOBALLY than USN&WR</p>
<p>Thanks for the help guys! But some more uplifting comments would be more beneficial! </p>