U of Michigan Ann Arbor LSA or Engineering

Colleges & Universities University of Michigan
1

I am somewhat troubled about what I want to do. I know that I want to be in the science or engineering field. I had my eyes set on either chemical, environmental/civil, electrical, or just the general mechanical engineering.
I am applying in state to Lawrence Tech, U of Michigan, MSU, and MTU.

For my U of Michigan application, I am somewhat below the average applicant in math. I had a 30 composite, but a score of 27 in math. This worries me in terms of the low acceptance rate for the engineering program. Should I just apply LSA and later transfer into engineering, or risk being rejected for Engineering. I am not dead set on engineering, but I know I could do it.

Stats and Important Facts

I am currently in a pre engineering high school program, technically manufacturing focused. I am also taking courses in a community college.

In regards to that, my high school offers all community college courses for free during high school. We can take quite a few credits, and they support a program that allows a 13th year with college paid for at the local community college. So I could easily go to that community college for free, and there is a “2 years at this community college and 2 years at a well known engineering school” program I could enter. I either want to go into electrical, environmental, or chemical engineering

I am applying to see if I could receive any good scholarships or merit scholarships, but I do not think my score is high enough for that. I may retake in november, and actually study for the test next time, or try to bring up my 27 in math and return my english score.

Stats:

GPA: 3.99
ACT: 30,
Rank: small rural school, does not rank

Well. I was a little disappointed in my score this time around, but It is completely understandable. I received a 28 on my first test.
This included a
28 english
25 math
32 reading
27 science
10 writing

My second test, this september, I received a 30 overall.I took it without writing by accident, but that is okay
26 english - really surprised I went down by two points.
27 Math- Well everything is evened out.
35 reading- very surprising
32 Science- a good improvement
30- stem, however I do not know how that factors into the score
No writing

2 AP Classes: Lang, Environmental Science Both 5’s on tests

We can take a max of six AP Lang if we do not attend a program. I did attend a program, so my max amount of ap classes would have been 4. I chose to take community college classes instead during my senior year. Due to a circumstance I could not take AP Us history or GOv, and I know lit and Ap Calc did not transfer well

Classes of Note:
Honors English 9-10
Honors Chemistry 11th
CC Calc1,Calc2
CC Cultural Anthropology
Online University Class: Drafting and Design

Currently taking:
Honors Econ
Honors Psychics
Technical Writing
Engineering Technology
Calc 3:Multivariable Calculus CC
Eng Composition 100 level CC- Honors

EC’s:

3 years varsity soccer, not possible senior year due to schedule
NHS : 2 years
NTHS: 2 years
Envirothon: Three years, couple first place medals, hoping for state champs this year
Student Council: 10th grade year
Tutoring:Mathematics
National Robotics Competition: Rescue Robot

Volunteer time: 50 hours or more
Special Olympics
Charity Events (brunches, dinners)
Good Will
Cleanup at local Sportsman Club

Awards:
Local Art Magazine: 3 years in a row
Freshman Male Scholar of the Year
Honor Roll (all)
Principal’s Honor Roll (academy)

Also Did an Engineering Internship at a local company. Mostly involved soldering, checking inductance, torque readings, and electrical schematics. Also some cad design and prototypes.

2

I would just apply for Engineering.

If you apply for LSA and get in, it’s super difficult to later transfer into engineering.

3

This is blatantly false… Internal transfers between LSA/CoE at UM are fairly straightforward and common as long as you fulfill the necessary prereqs.

Apply for LSA because your math subscore makes it substantially more difficult to gain admission to CoE.

4

I agree with nubswitstubs. Transferring to the CoE is automatic as long as you have a 3.0 GPA in the prerequisite courses. I would apply to the college of LSA

5

I know this question seems a little odd, but does the math subscore really matter If I am in Calc 3 and will complete Diff Eq before graduating. I just don’t understand how a predicted act score for a college course is more substantial than already completing a good amount of college level courses in that section.

I know the ACT is important, but it is an academic predictor. If I have already completed the courses upon which the ACT is predicting my success level at, is the ACT really needed at that point. I mean is the ACT more important than the actual college result?

6

The fact that you’re taking calc 3 and diff eq in HS yet scoring relatively poorly on ACT math suggests the courses you’re taking probably aren’t up to par. It seems odd that you scored low twice. If your courses are actually standard difficulty and your two ACT scores were just flukes, then just retake the ACT again and make sure to get close to 36 in math.

7

I actually don’t think there’s a strong correlation with ACT math and mathematically ability at higher levels. While it is still a positive correlation, its doesn’t tell the whole story. ACT math isn’t difficult, its mostly about speed. ACT math is like a 100 m race, versus 10km at Calculus and above. I’ve met a few people in Tau Beta Pi who only had a 29 or 30 composite ACT score.

8

I would guess that even the people with 29/30 composite scores in TBP had relatively high math subscores. It really doesn’t make sense to be on an accelerated track in HS (taking calc 3, diff eq) while also performing poorly on ACT math.

It’s certainly not a rule, but generally speaking students who succeed with higher-level maths score very well on ACT math. It’s definitely not the case that a high score implies success later on, though, since as you said ACT math is not particularly difficult.

9

I agree that you should not apply to CoE. Not only your ACT composite is below the 25th percentile, your Math section is score is very significantly off from the admission range. For LSA from in state, your test score is right at the 25th percentile that you still have a reasonable chance.

10

The courses I am taking are very challenging. There is not a single day where I do not go home and study, review, work on problems, or think about calculus for a good amount of time. I am just not very good at timed math tests, it takes me longer to do math. I can do very long and hard problems in mathematics, but just not at a high speed. It has also been a while since I have seen most of the problems on the act, and not to mention the way those questions are being taught have changed quite a lot.

To put it into perspective, at the academy I go to, a lot of people have got a 31-33 on their act. I performed much better than they are performing in Calc 1 this year, because I am methodical with my work. I am not in any way fast.

They may have got a higher ACT score, but I am still better at mathematics, especially calculus. I do not see the virtue in retaking a test which predicts my performance on a course that I have already taken.

It was also predicted by the PSAT that I could not handle a college level course in Mathematics, but I performed much better than those around me who scored higher on the ACT portion. Maybe it is because I struggle with timed tests in general, get anxiety about Math Tests, and am tired from the other test portions.

I guess I would want to know your perspective on what a hard math problem is. This is an example of an average homework problem given to us to be completed for the next class with proper notation and explanation using vectors.

“Water traveling along a straight portion of a river normally flows fastest in the middle, and the speed slows
almost to zero at the banks. Consider a long stretch of river flowing north, with parallel banks 40 meters
apart. If the maximum water speed is 3 m/s the flow rate from the bank can be modeled with f(x) = 3sin x
40
If a boater would like to cross from A to B with a constant heading and has a constant boat speed of 5
m/s, determine the angle at which the boat should head.”

Or

“Given the vector valued function r(t) = <cost, sin=”" t,="" ln(cost)="">, -
π
2 < t < π
2.
a) Find the vectors T, N, and B at the point (1, 0, 0). (6 points)
b) Find the curvature function k(t) and determine the value(s) of t for which the curvature is largest. (4 points)
c ) Find the curvature k(t) at the value of t determine in part b.
Plot the function on the Calc3DPlot and print out a good graph that confirms your t value. (2 points)

d) You are at the point (1, 0, 0), approximately where will you be 5 units down the curve? "</cost,>

11

I was never able to understand how my D, who ended up with a 5 on the AP Calc AB exam, only scored a 30 on ACT math and never cracked 700 on SAT math.

12

The problem is, how do you convince the adcom you are capable in Math for engineering with a Matb section 4+ points below the 25th percentile in both attempts? Disi you take Math2 in SAT2?

13

I did not take any of the subject tests. I took the PSAT two times, but nothing special with that.

If I apply and get denied for The college of Engineering by Nov 1st and get these results back, can I apply to LSA?

14

Pretty sure the EA decisions don’t come out til mid December. If you get deferred, then you will really be in a bind. You would probably have to withdraw your COE app and resubmit for LSA. You are getting some good advice on this thread. Your math score is gonna hurt. If you had an AP Calc test score that would help. If you are set on UM best bet would be to go for LSA or finish the 13th year and go into COE as a transfer. First year engineering classes are almost all taken with LSA students anyway. If you can survive those with a B average, you’ll get into COE as a sophomore transfer.

15

You may switch your application to LSA after deferred in EA, however, you cannot change your essay. If I were you, I would apply to LSA directly to maximize your chance and apply for cross campus transfer after freshman year.

16

@AverageJoe22 Spending a lot of time studying and doing problems does not necessarily mean you’re good at math. The HW problems you posted also do not help your case…

To be frank, given the information you’ve shared it’s unlikely that your math abilities are as strong as you think / are portraying. Even if you were actually good at math and are just somehow terrible at standardized tests, you are still much better off applying to LSA because the CoE adcom will undoubtedly have the same concerns that have been brought up in this thread.

17

Any reason you cannot re-take the ACT and improve your composite score by 2 or 3 points, and math by 6 or 7? If you were to do that, your admission chances would be very high in both CoE and LSA.

18

I guess because I want to apply early decision.

I see your point though. I guess the decision is based off of the fact that I am still pondering continuing at my local community college. It is a good school, of course harder than high school, but nowhere near prestigious universities such as U of M.

It would probably not be a bad idea to apply later after doing better on the ACT. I know that is most likely a better choice, but I also have to consider the other schools I am applying too. I know I will get into Lawrence Tech and Michigan State and Alma, and I already received my acceptance letter into Michigan Tech. I would not feel bad about going to any of those 5 schools.

It is not that University of Michigan is not my first choice, but my family does not think as highly of the school as most do. I have also heard about the somewhat cutthroat atmosphere, but I do not mind a little bit of competitiveness. I am not 100% on engineering as a major, since as most people know, many students change their major. I am also very bad at math because I have to try hard to do well and understand some concepts, according to most on this thread. I do know that U of Michigan has many other wonderful programs besides engineering and offers a lot of opportunities.

So in that facet, it is not the end of the world if I get denied. I can re-apply to LSA.
I could also just finish my 13th year at the community college. If fact I could probably only have a semester of classes there and receive around 44 credits + 6-8 ap credits, and submit an application for the spring semester to U of M.

I do appreciate all the great advice from everyone here. I do value the discussion had here, and it has really opened my eyes to see how qualified most of the students applying to UofM COE are.

Would I have time to take the December 12th ACT, and have the results in on time?

19

You should plan to retake ACT anway. You has a high chance to be deferred and your new score will be considered in RD rolling.

20

Honestly, your best chances of getting in is through Kinesiology or Nursing. And yeah, you’ll have to fake your supplement to reflect that. I know average Kinesiology ACT range is 28-31 where you would fit. That’s if you don’t mind a little lying. But plenty do LSA with the intention of being COE all the time, so its not much different.

Either that or go to a satellite campus in Dearborn or Flint, then go to AA