<p>From a Penn professor:</p>
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<p>UCLAri: I never though the Producers was funny and have never seen it after reading the lyrics to that song which I found offensive. There are limits to what is tolerable, in my opinion, and I know many people who have dropped out of the ACLU because they could defend the fact that the ACLU sees no boundaries to acceptability in free speech vs offensiveness.</p>
<p>collegialmom,</p>
<p>How can we truly say that we’ve faced our fears if we can’t laugh at them?</p>
<p>Do you find “A Modest Proposal” out of bounds because it calls for eating babies? Satire SHOULD hit home. I’m not saying that what the student did was good satire, but offensive does not necessarily mean bad.</p>
<p>“A student dressed up as a terrorist, as I’m sure thousands if not millions of other Flag waving Americans did also.”</p>
<p>I don’t know what planet D. Sullivan (alumnus) lives on, but if he or she thinks that millions of Americans dressed up like terrorists this year for Halloween, s/he must be delusional. Maybe in his or her dreams.</p>
<p>I think a Halloween costume at a party where one is enacting and role playing terrorism is NOT the same as a scripted play that either depicts issues, history, or even comedy. For instance, this past summer, my daughter was in a professional production of Cabaret. She had to wear a hat with swatiska on it in one number. Others were dressed as Nazis. She is Jewish as were several cast members including an Israeli citizen. While it was emotional stuff to depict, it is part of what being an actor involves and the messages in the play are thought provoking. She also was in Cabaret in HS and a member of the cast was even one of the Von Trapps. As well, in plays like Laramie Project, there is gay bashing. But it depicts events. The Producers is a comedy that uses historical characters and events. There are also comedic routines about news events and so forth. I feel differently about a script/show or piece of art, than a kid in a Halloween costume role playing offensive things at a party with a university President. It is not the same as being on stage depicting a written work.</p>
<p>UCLAri: I refuse to laugh at Nazis and the Holocaust. Guess not forgiving Hitler and the Nazis for killing millions of Jews, Catholics, gays, Down’s syndrome children, physically and mentally disabled women and children, Americans, Russians, and a multitude of others will never strike me as funny. Just an idiosyncrasy, I guess. Keep on laughing!</p>
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<p>If one of the points of Halloween IS to make it a day to be “on stage” or “in costume” and to face our fears, then why is it so out of line?</p>
<p>Because people feel personally attacked. It is NOT the same as street or stage theater, where one is viewing it with some distance. It shows a lack of sensitivity. I guess the WWII corollary would be if someone showed up at a party in 1943 dressed as a Nazi and went around threatening people. I think that would be considered in bad taste and the person would have been asked to leave (if not arrested.)</p>
<p>I think it depends on the sensitivities of those in question. But arresting people for a tasteless costume? Man oh man, thank goodness we’re not in those days…</p>
<p>or are we? </p>
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<p>It seems to me that people feel personally attacked for all kinds of things. I’m sure that somewhere, a group is upset about everything and anything.</p>
<p>UCLAri…that is a good question. I am not sure if I can articulate my thoughts well on it. When I go to see the Producers, I am making a choice to see this satirical comedic musical and I know the subject matter. When I go to a gathering with peers, I don’t expect someone to show up and offend me by dressing as a Nazi and role playing killing Jews at the party. Sorry, but the latter offends me but plays and such do not. Also, with plays, I have a choice whether to attend. At a party sponsored by my college president, I would have expected to not have to be subject to being offended in this sort of way, watching someone act out being a terrorist on others at the party. I’d be offended to see someone dressed as the KKK and round up the Blacks at the party in “good fun” too. I just think once she discovered it, and I realize it was hard to have a handle on what was going on, but she does say once she discovered what he was depicting she refused to take any more pictures with him, that she may have told him that it was offensive to others at the party, in the same way a gay bashing sign would be, a KKK outfit, or a Nazi outfit, particularly as there was “role playing and skits” taking place, and asked him to stop as it was inappropriate. There is a time and place and I think if that was at a private party, and everyone was OK with it, fine. But at a school event, not so fine.</p>
<p>I can understand that sentiment. In fact, I more or less agree. But to say that we should ALWAYS “avoid the line” is also a bit silly. I don’t see why we should live our lives like ostriches, burying our heads in the sand anytime something potentially “offensive” comes up. </p>
<p>Of course, I like to confront things head on. I’m not everyone. </p>
<p>I’m not saying that I think what the student did was in the best of taste, but the hullabaloo over it is just absurd. What’s funny about “taste,” at least in my mind, is that it’s so very context dependent. Had he dressed up as Mao, I doubt any upset would have occurred. Yet Mao was responsible for more deaths than any suicide bomber could dream of. </p>
<p>But since most people don’t “feel” offended by Mao, it’s okay. But Nazis? Ixnay. KKK? Ixnay.</p>
<p>It’s just puzzling to me.</p>
<p>“It seems to me that people feel personally attacked for all kinds of things. I’m sure that somewhere, a group is upset about everything and anything.”</p>
<p>She is the president of a major university and is paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to show good judgment and keep the peace.</p>
<p>I don’t think that people are offended by the usual costumes such as clowns, etc. Where I work, the people dressed up for children in cute funny costumes. If anyone had dressed offensively, they would have been sent home. It is just the ethic of the university but we wouldn’t have to been reminded. No terrorist costumes, nothing that would offend people.</p>
<p>Per Mao, maybe it is people’s lack of knowledge, not their acceptance of him, that would have people on less on alert here. Plus terrorists and suicide bombers have killed lots of Americans recently and the pain runs deep. Maybe you personlly haven’t been very affected by suicide bombers but it really is an acute issue for many.</p>
<p>It isn’t so much as which character was responsible for more deaths. Certain characters, such as a terrorist in this instance, offend and kill certain members of society and those belonging to those groups may have been in attendance at that party. So, a KKK costume with a little “skit” like lynching a Black student, would be in poor taste and offensive to some African American students attending. A person dressed as a Nazi, depicting marching some Jewish partygoers off to a gas chamber, would be in poor taste and offend some Jews at the party. A person dressed up as a terrorist depicting and enacting terrorist acts might offend Jews or might offend relatives of those lost in 9/11, for example. This is not the same as having a debate on an issue or speaking out on one side or another. It is about a social situation in which offensive racist or other types of offensive portrayals were accepted as OK at a school sponsored social event. I just think that offends certain people of certain groups who should not have been subjected to that at this sort of event. If one belongs to the group that the other one is depicting shooting and terrorizing, it is pretty offensive.</p>
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<p>Clowns actually bother me quite a bit. No joke. </p>
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<p>Isn’t that…I dunno… boring? No envelope pushing? I’d hate to think of a Halloween where nobody thinks up something that isn’t “cute and funny.”</p>
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<p>Very understandable at an office. But again, what’s “offensive?” I look vaguely “brown” in my appearance. If I dressed up as Fidel Castro, could that have set off a Cuban employee and been enough? How about if I dressed up as Piglet and offended a devout Muslim? [It happens.](<a href=“http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005450600,00.html”>http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005450600,00.html</a>)</p>
<p>I think they were very lucky that it was only a costume, and not the real thing!</p>
<p>What do you think of the costume consisting of snack pack boxes taped to a person with an implement (fork or knife) thrust through the little boxes of corn flakes and raisin bran. The costume obviously represents a “cereal (sic) killer.” Poor taste? or very funny?</p>
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<p>Like I said in my above post, so do pigs. Are we going to stop dressing up as cute pigs for Halloween?</p>
<p>And yes, I understand that a certain amount of common sense is very very applicable. But when you’re dealing with a bunch of college students, don’t be shocked when one of them “pushes the envelope.” Inviting a bunch of college undergrads to a Halloween party is just asking for something crazy. </p>
<p>I think that the president did the right thing by restraining him when he got too theatric. But the costume itself? Not that big of a deal. It’s the acting out that went over the line.</p>
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<p>It’s just kinda corny. Anyone that lazy must be a real flake.</p>
<p>C’mon…they can’t all be winners…</p>
<p>I actually work with students who like that cute funny kind of thing. Guess you must be in a different culture, the dark side. Not working with children, eh?</p>
<p>Anyhow, U-Penn will work things out with this woman. Maybe she will go the way of Larry Summers, as it is hard to defend terrorists. And all Summers did was get a few women annoyed!</p>
<p>I remember being in NYC just before Halloween two years ago and seeing an interview on tv with the owner of a costume store. He reported that Osama Bin Laden masks and Saddam Hussein masks were his top sellers and that GWB was a distant third. In NYC, at a location from which the empty spot which the towers used to fill is palpable. I think this young man may have made an unseemly choice of costume but I don’t think it’s the fault of the President of the university. To expect her to be responsible for students only wearing inoffensive costumes is neither practical nor reasonable. Should she have to stand at the door and okay each costume as guests enter the party? The issue of asking the student to leave due to his costume is problematic, if specific ‘rules’ were not advertised prior to the party, which is unlikely. </p>
<p>The boy made a stupid choice, the President responded by, once realizing what his costume was, not allowing any further photographs to be taken. Common sense and common courtesy should be the only rules necessary for a party like this, and probably in most cases are sufficient. However, there will often be individuals with neither. How we react to them is the true test, and it was probably felt that having a confrontation by insisting that he leave would be the wrong way to handle it. Maybe that was wrong, maybe not. Apologies have been made which, in this case, should be enough to let the matter drop, in my opinion.</p>
<p>collegialmom,</p>
<p>I’m still curious. What would you do about an offended Muslim if someone came in a pig costume?</p>