U. Penn Prez Poses with Suicide Bomber at Halloween Party

[razorsharp]

<p>

The president of one of the leading universities in the United States last week posed for photographs with a student dressed as a suicide bomber, The Jerusalem Post has learned.</p>

<p>In copies of photos obtained by the Post, University of Pennsylvania president Dr. Amy Gutmann is seen standing with engineering student Saad Saadi at the annual Halloween costume party held at the president’s home.

I think the student and the President should be reprimanded. What do you think?</p>

<p><a href=“Satellite News and latest stories | The Jerusalem Post”>Satellite News and latest stories | The Jerusalem Post;

[Northstarmom]

<p>I agree. The student’s costume was offensive. Nothing funny about that to anyone. There’s a big difference between Halloween fun and being offensive, and the student and the prez crossed the line. </p>

<p>(BTW, I’m not Jewish. One doesn’t have to be Jewish to see this is offensive).</p>

[sjmom2329]

<p>I agree, Northstarmom. Another quote from the article,

In other photos taken at Gutmann’s party that evening, Saadi can be seen carrying out a series of mock hostage executions, evoking images reminiscent of the series of abductions and murders of Westerners in Iraq in 2004. </p>

<p>In one instance, Saadi stands over a fellow student crouched on the ground, and points a gun at her head while reciting verses from the Koran. </p>

<p>In another image, Saadi poses with an unidentified child as he points Saadi’s toy gun at the camera. </p>

<p>The day after the party, Saadi was quoted in the Daily Pennsylvanian, the campus newspaper, as saying that he attended Gutmann’s affair dressed as a “freedom martyr.”

</p>

[hazmat]

<p>Essence of water buffalo?</p>

[collegialmom]

<p>Impeach her.</p>

[soozievt]

<p>While she couldn’t control what costumes students showed up in, she certainly should have refused to have her picture taken with this student (which comes across as approval) and told him that his costume was offensive and inappropriate. Further, if she was aware that the student was renacting ‘skits’ in character as a terrorist, she should have asked for him to stop as she would not tolerate that at her party or on her campus.</p>

<p>Also, just because it is Halloween, it doesn’t mean that certain standards of conduct are thrown out the window. Could someone come to the party wearing gay bashing signs over his body and then when “in character” go around preaching anti-gay speech? Should someone get to come to her house dressed as a Nazi and renacting little Nazi skits? Does this mean that as long as one is wearing a Halloween costume, they can behave in ways that normally would not be sanctioned?</p>

<p>Disclaimer…I am not bashing Penn. My own kid applied and was accepted there and it is a fine fine university. My comments about this one incident would be the same no matter at which school it had occurred.</p>

[momof3sons]

<p><a href=“http://www.upenn.edu/pennnews/article.php?id=1047[/url]”>http://www.upenn.edu/pennnews/article.php?id=1047&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I think this is a reasonable explanation for what happened. And yes, I am very offended by a student dressing this way.</p>

[berurah]

<p>Looks to me like one of those situations where Gutmann was so open-minded that her brains fell out. Why is it that difficult for some to see that certain material is not fodder for comedy–and why does this line have to be crossed with such regularity? What happened to a little bit of judgment and responsibility–or someone in charge simply standing up and saying “no”? ~berurah</p>

<p>(invoking Susan’s disclaimer for the exact same reasons.)</p>

[Venado]

<p>How about someone coming to a party dressed as an envelope full of anthrax? We saw that years ago during the antrhax scares on Capitol Hill. Halloween will always have offensive images. If you are easily offended at Halloween parties – curl up with a good book at home instead.</p>

[berurah]

<p>O.K…just read the statement that momof3sons provided the link to…I can buy that, kinda; however, how many of OUR kids have been disciplined for things that they have “inadvertantly” gotten into before they “realized” something was wrong? How many adults have held them to a higher standard and not accepted the excuse? If this was a “mistake,” it was costly and unfortunate, as are many of the mistakes our kids make over time.</p>

[collegialmom]

<p>Prez Gutman says:“The costume is clearly offensive and I was offended by it. As soon as I realized what his costume was, I refused to take any more pictures with him, as he requested. The student had the right to wear the costume just as I, and others, have a right to criticize his wearing of it.” </p>

<p>I say: If she had an ounce of leadership abiltiy, she would have taken the student aside, told him that it was offensive for many reasons, and requested that he voluntarily change clothes in the interest of harmony. She did not. What does she get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for? In large part to raise money, and there will be a backlash here against her personally, affecting her credibility. She had a chance to show her stuff and blew it. We don’t get that many chances like this in life.</p>

[soozievt]

<p>I hadn’t seen her statement until just now. Her statement is OK and the basic thing is, I agree with her that the student had a right to dress up like that but she shouldn’t have had her picture taken with him and told him why it was offensive and inappropriate and again, if he was reenacting terrorist “skits”, she should have asked him to stop as it was her party, her university. It seems like she is saying the right things. Who knows if when the first photo was taken if she was unaware and it happened quickly. She is saying once she realized his costume, she refused any further photos and told him why. It is hard to know exactly what happened and her response is plausible. I’d like to think she truly did tell him it was offensive and she is not saying this after the fact, now that the photos were dispersed widely. However, it is possible that it happened quickly that kids came up to get their photo with her and that she approached him after the fact. I’d like to think if she was aware of his “skits”, she would have told him to stop.</p>

[Northstarmom]

<p>" The student had the right to wear the costume just as I, and others, have a right to criticize his wearing of it." </p>

<p>The president had the right to tell the student that the costume is offensive and consequently wasn’t allowed at her house. That she lacked the guts to do this indicates a serious lack of leadership ability. </p>

<p>Would she have thought it fine if a student had come dressed as Hitler or as a KKK member?</p>

[roshke]

<p>The full statement by Amy Guttman:</p>

<p>

Each year, the president hosts a Halloween party for Penn students. More than 700 students attend. They all crowd around to have their picture taken with me in costume. This year, one student who had a toy gun in hand had his picture taken with me before it was obvious to me that he was dressed as a suicide bomber. He posted the photo on a website and it was picked up on several other websites.</p>

<p>The costume is clearly offensive and I was offended by it. As soon as I realized what his costume was, I refused to take any more pictures with him, as he requested. The student had the right to wear the costume just as I, and others, have a right to criticize his wearing of it.

</p>

<p>From the Philly Inquirer:</p>

<p>The student in question, Saad Saadi, has apologized:</p>

<p>

My friend Jason, and I, express our condolences and sympathy to all offended by our costumes. We wish to make it clear that we do not support terrorism, violence, or anything that is against society. There is no agenda or statement associated with our behavior shown in these pictures. The costumres are menat to portray scary characters much like many other costumes on Halloween…"

</p>

<p>I find Gutmann’s statement to be totally plausible - people mob her to take pictures with her and unfortunately she didn’t process the nature of the costume until just after the photo was taken. At that point she did the appropriate thing as even Saadi has acknowledged that she refused to take any more photos with him once she realized the nature of the costume. </p>

<p>It is tough for people to realize just how much contact, networking, greeting and handshaking public figures do and how easy it is for someone seeking to embarrass them to do so. On the other hand, I think the costume was in terrible taste, and showed incredibly poor judgment and insensitivity for a senior in college. He’s the one who deserves every bit of the backlash for the incident, IMO, not Guttman.</p>

[Northstarmom]

<p>I can understand her not realizing at first what the costume was. I can evfen imagine her being photographed with him before she realized what he was wearing.</p>

<p>What I don’t understand is her not telling him to leave after she did realize that he was dressed as a terrorist.</p>

<p>I wonder if she was concerned that since she’s Jewish some people might have thought she was being oversensitive if she had said she was offended. If so, then, she needs to grow a spine. Terrorism isn’t a joking matter to most people --regardless of their religions or ethnicities.</p>

[collegialmom]

<p>Northstarmom, you are so right. She is the president of a university (and it doesn’t have to be clarified that it is an Ivy necessarily), and as such has a responsibility to take action. I wonder if the student had been in a KKK costume going around imitating lynching if she would have had the gumption to speak with him about offensiveness? I also wonder how many other people in this position would have been willing, able and on top of things enough to have done something? This is the type of episode in which I hope I would know to intervene, I suspect that you would be able to. I don’t think she will be able to get this excused too easily, as she is in a very high profile position.</p>

[soozievt]

<p>I also think after realizing the costume, as well as the little “skits” that were portrayed in some articles enacting role playing as a terrorist, I think it was her place to say it was unwelcome and inappropriate. Again, while it is the student’s right to free speech, the person who is leading the university or hosting the party can say that it is unwelcome and inappropriate and offensive. It is like a teacher doesn’t allow profanity in the classroom as it is offensive even if free speech allows profanity. I think that a costume that is overtly offensive to others…be it a terrorist costume, KKK costume, gay bashing signs on a costume, Nazi costume, along with “role playing” at the party, is not in good taste and would offend others (obviously it does or it would not be in the news), and once she realized it, she could have asked him to stop the “skits”, photo taking, as well as take off the fake bombs or parts that depicted terrorism while in her home.</p>

[UCLAri]

<p>

Looks to me like one of those situations where Gutmann was so open-minded that her brains fell out. Why is it that difficult for some to see that certain material is not fodder for comedy

</p>

<p>

And now it’s…
Springtime for Hitler and Germany
Deutschland is happy and gay!
We’re marching to a faster pace
Look out, here comes the master race!
Springtime for Hitler and Germany
Rhineland’s a fine land once more!
Springtime for Hitler and Germany
Watch out, Europe
We’re going on tour!
Springtime for Hitler and Germany…

</p>

<p>So what’s the statute of limitations for bad taste? ;)</p>

[collegialmom]

<p>She should have asked him to leave and go change costumes. The skits were only secondary to the intent, and she is supposed to set an example. Then let the student get the ACLU to defend his right to dress as a terrorist. And guess what, he could have been one-what if the bombs were real? Was he checked out by security on his way in? Remember what happened recently at Duquesne University lately, the guests with guns were not checked by security, if they had been could they have said “just a costume, officer?”</p>

[audiophile]

<p>Here’s some other viewpoints from the Daily Pennsylvanian website:</p>

<p>

D. Sullivan [Alumnus]
posted 11/03/06 @ 6:01 AM EST
I have had the oppportunity to personally meet both the student in question as well as the president of the University, and I can vouch for the fact that neither one of them had any of the politically charged intent that some have suggested they possessed. In the American Legal system, whether deciding to enforce contracts or criminal punishment, we ALWAYS look towards intent. In this case, there was none, so please put the pitch forks and torches away.</p>

<p>What we have here is a student who made a less than politicaly correct costume choice (still protected under the first amendment), and a University President who was busy trying to meet as many of her guests as possible. Yes, there’s no question that the picture of her standing next to this student doesn’t look good, BUT DO NOT jump to the conclusion that she witnessed or approved of the photos of simulated hostage slayings, and in turn supports such behavior. If you’ve never been to the President’s Halloween party, just know that the President usually is running around taking a millions of pictures with thousands students, doing little more than shaking hands. Let’s not label her guilty by such a superficial association.</p>

<p>Some have said President Gutman should have never allowed the picture to be taken, but couldn’t you then make the argument that if she did so, it would be a sign of a failure to support a free and open enviroment for all students and ideas at Penn? [Yes I know, the student has said time and again that it was meant to be a scarry costume, not a political one in any way; but consider the hypothetical] One of the things that is suppossed to set America’s institutions for higher learning is the freedom student are given -ney- OWED thanks to the American Constitution. An argument can be made that this is living proof of such freedom.</p>

<p>That said, let’s return to reality. This was Halloween on a college campus. A student dressed up as a terrorist, as I’m sure thousands if not millions of other Flag waving Americans did also. A person of importance hosted a party open to one and all, and she asked by the student to take a photo. Clearly, within the context of Halloween AND having met the student (unlike those who wag their fingers) she thought it reasonable to take a quick photo. There is no political endorsement here, just as there is no endorsement of gang violence when somone shows up dressed like a member of a biker gang, or an endorsement of communisim when somone dresses up like Chairman Mao.</p>

<p>While I applaud the effort of groups like project democracy, who tirelessly work to ensure the image of the middle east is not tarnished in America’s academic circles, I hope the general public will be able to recognize that this is simply a misunderstanding. The watchog role such groups play is vitally important to ensuring social progressivness and change, but this is case where the dog is barking up the wrong tree. In this day an age it is easy to be a little trigger happy on issues of politically correctness, but anyone with any sense who has studied at Penn or other like minded schools is fully aware of how sensitive it is to middle eastern politics. Regardless of which side you stand on the student and faculty are generally welcoming to foreign ideas and students; and MANY civil debates have been held on campus. To suggest that by virtue of this one picture, that Penn or its president supports a jaded and narrow view of the Middle East is mere conjecture. There are other Universities out there, though, [to say nothing of individuals] that do not offer such a welcoming enviroment to Middle Eastern culture and politics. I ask that you save your rage and your anger for them.</p>

<p>In closing, I think we can all agree that this is an isolated incident at Penn, which ultimately makes for better news than it does real discussion. If anything, you should walk away discussing how we can solve the political problems of the middle east, so that some day our children -in looking for a scary halloween costume- will not have the faintest clue as to what Islamic Extremist Terrorism is or looks like. Turn this is in to a positive experience, host a forum on Middle Eastern culture: food, dance, music, etc. and show the world how ridiculous these accusations are.

</p>