U.S. Abortion Rate Falls to Lowest Level in Decades

Parent Cafe
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<p>At first glance, that sounds like the best pro-choice argument I’ve heard.</p>

<p>The difference, though, is that there is a certain amount of responsibility that the woman should be willing to take on, being that she did know that sex sometimes makes babies.</p>

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<p>They wouldn’t be, at least not if Ron Paul gets elected. He would turn jurisdiction over to the states, and would advocate that the person responsible for the crime would be the abortionist, not the woman.</p>

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<p>Good point.</p>

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<p>Um…Sex is a biological drive. I really can’t see penalizing people for that. Darwinian evolution (if we all believe in that) created the sex drive as driving and unopposable.</p>

<p>And the analogy isn’t between a kidney and a baby, it’s between a kidney and a uterus.</p>

<p>Murder a baby? Illegal. Refuse to donate your body to gestate another? Nobody else’s business. Deliver the fetus. If it lives, keep it alive. At less than 22 weeks, this is extremely unlikely, but if pro-life people want to be there trying to keep this “fetus” alive, go for it.</p>

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<p>Anti-abortionists can argue for the need to punish women for having irresponsible sex, and pro-choice activists can argue for womens’ rights to privacy, but the bottom line IMO is all about what is best for the children. </p>

<p>As the law currently stands, an independently inviable fetus is not a child, but rather only a potential child. Will this potential child’s parents love it and care for it properly, if and when it is born? If the answer is most likely “no,” then it would be a terrible mistake to carry this fetus to term.</p>

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<p>National News, OpinionMel Fei: Man Wants Say in Unplanned Pregnancy
[»</a> National News, OpinionMel Fei: Man Wants Say in Unplanned Pregnancy » MindSpeak](<a href=“http://politics.fyreplace.com/2006/03/15/national-news-opinionmel-fei-man-wants-say-in-unplanned-pregnancy/]»”>http://politics.fyreplace.com/2006/03/15/national-news-opinionmel-fei-man-wants-say-in-unplanned-pregnancy/)</p>

<p>Why Should a Man Bear Responsibility for a Woman who Decides to have a Baby?
[Why</a> Should a Man Bear Responsibility for a Woman who Decides to have a Baby? male contraceptives men women pregnancy](<a href=“http://www.angryharry.com/esWhyShouldaManBearResponsibility.htm]Why”>http://www.angryharry.com/esWhyShouldaManBearResponsibility.htm)</p>

<p>Sort of makes you think. You hear comments such as; “It’s my body, you have no say so”; “That’s between me and my doctor”; “It’s not your body”; etc…</p>

<p>Assuming there is some agreement on this, then we must agree then that the woman has all the choices here. I.e. She is allowed to choose whether to have sex; with whom; with contraception or not; for her partner to use contraception or not; if she gets pregnant whether to keep it, put it up for adoption, or abort it.</p>

<p>Therefor, a man can’t be held responsible for getting a woman pregnant. It was her choice all the way up to the point of conception. (Discarding any chance of rape).</p>

<p>If the argument is for the man to be held responsible, at least partially for the pregnancy, then he obviously deserves some rights concerning the decision on what to do with the unplanned pregnancy. If the events leading up to the pregnancy were done with the “Mutual Responsibility” of both partners, then what happens after conception must also be done with the “Mutual Responsibility” of both partners.</p>

<p>Can’t have it both ways. I think this question needs to be answered BEFORE ANY OTHER QUESTION concerning abortion. You can’t hold a man responsible for something that you don’t allow any right to. If the decision is made that women have all the rights of her body, and it’s not the man’s business, then that is that. The man can’t force her to keep it. Can’t force her to abort it. Can’t force her to put it up for adoption. Can’t force the woman to do anything. But, because he isn’t responsible for the woman’s body, and has no say so, he also isn’t responsible for supporting the child should the woman decide to keep it. After all, it doesn’t matter what he wants, right? It’s the woman’s body and it’s between her and her doctor.</p>

<p>Definitely something to think about. Either it’s all the woman’s choice and right and the man is taken totally out of the picture; or the man has a vested interest and some say. Hmmmmmm…</p>

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<p>Here some interesting stories of those who lived.</p>

<p><a href=“http://joseromia.tripod.com/survivors.html[/url]”>http://joseromia.tripod.com/survivors.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Then I guess my mom should have aborted me, and the same for much of the world’s population who weren’t loved/cared for properly as children.</p>

<p>Gosh, where do you draw the line? I know LOTS of people who were abused or neglected as children, who never got love, hugs, support…are you saying ALL these people should never have been born?</p>

<p>Now, Bay, I have a question for you: Have you bothered to ASK any of these people whether they would have preferred death to their less-than-optimal childhoods?</p>

<p>Oh, and while you’re at it, did ANY of these people (who were abused/unloved/neglected) end up doing anything productive for society? Did ANY of them make any positive contributions to society?</p>

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<p>Your logic is sound, cc. Very good point.</p>

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<p>^^I agree with this. A man should not be compelled to support a child if he has no voice in the decision whether or not to bear it.</p>

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<p>leal,</p>

<p>My heart goes out to you for feeling this way. While my sister is a good mother to her adopted son, no doubt he does and will question his biological parents’ rejection of him.</p>

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<p>BTW,</p>

<p>I think adoptive parents are amazing and I am incredibly grateful for their love and care for the children abandoned by their birth parents.</p>

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<p>Thank you. I was trying to make the point that MANY people were neglected/unloved/abused and, while not optimal, they grow up to be good people and productive members of society. How can anyone make such a judgment as to say that NONE of these people should have lived?</p>

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<p>Yes, he will, and that is normal. It’s not optimal to have been rejected by his biological parents. But how many of us have had optimal lives?</p>

<p>Both my husband and I were rejected by our ‘parents’ who ‘raised’ us. Our childhoods were abusive. But, we survived, and we have endeavored to do better with our own child.</p>

<p>Such is life.</p>

<p>To say that people like us should never have been born…is like saying someone with a disability should never have been born…people usually find such judgment about them by others who have no business judging their contributions to society and their inherent worth…offensive.</p>

<p>Not all adopted children grow up scarred. My neice was adopted and she is happy and well-adjusted. I have a friend who gave her baby up for adoption when she was a teen, and over 25 years later that child sought her out and now they have a relationship! She was ecstatic that her child forgave her and wanted to know her. That child had a good life with loving adoptive parents and now has a 2nd mom to love. It was a beautiful story!</p>

<p>Life and love always win out over death and violence, imo.</p>

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<p>^^I surely hope you’re right.</p>

<p>I would never argue that there are those whose situation means they shouldn’t live.</p>

<p>I’m an sure a gene scan of me would have resulted in an abortion. C’est la guerre. As the great bard said, “Our little lives are rounded by a sleep.”</p>

<p>But lealdragon I can categorically state that I am glad you are with us even though we disagree. (I don’t mean this as fatuously as it sounds. Forgive me.) I do respect your humanity.</p>

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<p>lealdragon: in response to my question about the sentence (prison or execution) for murdering an unborn fetus if States get the right to criminalize procreative choices, you said:</p>

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<p>If “jurisdiction” over this is returned to the states, what the US President advocates will mean buttkiss, it will not be a federal concern.</p>

<p>If you are old enough to recall the reality of pre-Roe society, you will remember that pregnant girls of wealthy families could go on a “holiday” out of the US and come back un-pregnant.</p>

<p>Less affluent girls often didn’t know an abortionist nor did they have the funds to pay for someone else to do it. These girls did it themselves with knitting needles, coat hangers and drinking all kinds of “folk remedies.” I remember one girl I knew back then telling me of a friend of hers who had repeatedly rolled down a series of stairs to self-abort. The only “murderer” will be the girl. Or, their close girl friend or sister who helps by inserting the objects.</p>

<p>Also, you forget how mean spirited moralists really are, men and especially women. Do you really think that the girl is going to get to (1) decide to murder her unborn fetus, (2) seek out and solicit some one to do the killing for compensation [the definition of murder for hire], (3) put the hired killer and the unborn fetus together, (4) assist in the killing and (5) attempt to cover up the killing and NOT be prosecuted?</p>

<p>Maybe back before Roe, some moralists might have had some pity on the plight of the girl, but now? Moralists have KILLED people over that person’s LEGAL actions in regard to reproductive choices. Do you really think that the states are not going to criminalize the girl’s actions?</p>

<p>And if you think that a state just wouldn’t do anything to a girl over being pregnant, I suggest you read the US Supreme Court in Buck v. Bell. States can legally pass laws to force sterilize women.</p>

<p>You want killing a fetus to be something that a state can criminalize, at least face up to the fact that in that more moral society, the criminals will include your daughter or grand-daughter if she goes that route.</p>

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<p>An admirable philosophy.</p>

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<p>Well, in every single case, it is a man and a woman who decide whether or not to create life.</p>

<p>Once a child is born, then any arguments about what might have been, are irrelevant IMO. The only issue then is whether that child will have two (preferably) parents to love and care for him/her. But creating a child to give away to someone else is, IMO, a sad and tragic decision. Libertarian that I am, I will defend a persons right to do it, but it is wrong.</p>

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<p>Well thank you for that! ;)</p>

<p>07Dad: It’s an icky, nasty mess. No doubt about it. No easy solutions. A lot of the problem is that women lost their power over the last few 1000 years, due to the patriarchal society.</p>

<p>As I said before, I certainly do not claim to have all the answers. I just believe that, if we can accept the premise that a ‘glob of cells’ with a face, fingers, toes, toenails, a heartbeat, and sucks its thumb and tries to move away from an invasive object inserted into its warm home…is a human PERSON, then society as a whole will find ways to deal with the problems encountered in trying to protect this person.</p>

<p>I’m sure there were messy problems when blacks first got freed from slavery. That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t have been freed.</p>

<p>But to continue to deny human life, to continue to gloss over it, justify it…all because by protecting that life, SOME will fall thru the cracks, SOME will break the law, SOME will be stupid and irresponsible…just is not a strong enough argument. That’s like saying ‘Don’t bother to make rape illegal because SOME women will falsely accuse men of rape.’</p>

<p>Unfortunately, there are no easy answers to a complex issue like abortion.</p>

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<p>So, after 9 pages, it seems that there is one agreed upon solution. One thing that ensures that abortion won’t be an issue; (Of the 90+% used as a means of birth control). Education! Educate the girls to keep their legs closed. Educate them that if they want to have sex, that they use birth control. That if they want to have sex, that they ensure that the guy uses a condom. Educate them that until they are ready to have a child, that they either refrain from sex or use proper birth control to prevent an unwanted pregnancy. That will take care of 90% of the abortions. It will also take care of all the UNWANTED babies that are raised in an unloved house. It will also take care of all the children given up for adoption because the mother wasn’t prepared to raise them. Come on people; this is not a difficult problem here.</p>

<p>If this is done, then the subject of abortion won’t come up. The subject of a “Woman’s Right” won’t come up. The subject of who’s body and who’s business it is won’t come up. If a woman isn’t responsible enough in the first place to prevent a pregnancy; (The 90+%), Which she has 100% control over; then what makes her responsible enough to make such a decision as an abortion, carrying to term, or adoption.</p>

<p>There is only one problem with this theory. There are those that don’t believe that there is anything wrong with abortions being used as a form of birth control. They believe that while no one but them have any say so in the matter, that the father must still be financially responsible if SHE CHOOSES to keep the baby. And that they are allowed to have such abortions, paid for my other people’s health care insurance premiums and/or taxes. </p>

<p>Because of this mindset, the debate will never end. This topic should never get to the point of being a “Moral Debate”. It should never get to the point of whether the fetus is a living human being or a blob of cells. None of the debates, arguments, point of views, etc… should even be discussed or needed. If the woman was a “Responsible” person; capable of making educated and rational decisions, and mature enough to choose properly; then none of this would be an issue. Remember, abortions of girls under 15 years old is only about 1.7%. That means that the majority of abortions are done by somewhat mature and educated women. With 50% happening to women who have had a previous abortion. This does not seem like a difficult issue. Many pretend that it is complicated and laden with morals and values. It’s not. Don’t get pregnant and you won’t need an abortion. </p>

<p>I totally empower every woman on the planet with 100% control and decisions for her body. I rebuke those who believe that women can or should be controlled by men. Women are my equal, and as such are responsible beings. No woman can ever say; “He got me pregnant”. No, HE DIDN’T. You did! Any man who forced a woman to have sex, have unprotected sex, or any type of sex against her will, should be charged with rape; and his nads should be cut off. I even volunteer to do the cutting. But, with this empowerment comes responsibility. Women, you are responsible for your own sexual actions. Parents are responsible to teach their children, especially their daughters, of this responsibility and ultimate power that they have been given. Then, discussions like this will no longer be needed.</p>

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<p>Wow, cc, that’s profound!</p>