I am a Chinese Protestant student who love physics and got accepted to both schools. I love UCB’s amazing research projects and faculty team and Notre Dame’s religious atmosphere, sense of community, and personal attention from professors. I am thinking about probably applying for physics PhD program after graduating from college.
I want to join research teams as an undergrad. I am worrying that at Berkeley it is hard for undergrads to have research opportunities. But on the other hand, Notre Dame’s research opportunities, though accessible, are not that cutting-edged. I also heard that ND’s science courses are generally easier than UCB. My math and physics ability is pretty strong, I got Global 1% in AMC 10 and 12, and scored 11 in AIME.
Humanities subjects also attract me, so I am also concerned about whether at UCB I cannot get personal advice from humanities professors since classes are big. I want to get my essays edited carefully.
I have a kid at ND majoring in a a different science, and she’s found excellent research opportunities, at ND, and through summer internships.
A couple of things to think about. ND has a four year graduation rate of 91% Berkeley has a four year graduation rate of 71%. ND makes sure students get in the classes they need and get good advising to graduate on time.
At ND, 59% of science majors go on to graduate school.: http://careercenter.nd.edu/students/success-stories-data/first-destination/
At Berkeley about 17% of Letters and science majors go on to graduate school: https://career.berkeley.edu/survey/2015overview
UCB had 94 physics majors graduating in 2015 (47% of the 14 survey respondents went to graduate school; previous years had similar percentage going to graduate school out of greater survey response), according to https://career.berkeley.edu/Survey/2015Majors .
Which humanities subjects interest you? Some are rather large (e.g. English with 277 graduates in 2015), while others are smaller (classics with 23, history of art with 63, philosophy with 81, rhetoric with 80, and the various foreign language and literature ones).
Actual class sizes can be checked on http://schedule.berkeley.edu . Frosh/soph level courses (1-99) tend to be significantly larger than junior/senior level courses (100-199) or graduate level courses (200-299).
UC Berkeley is higher in the academic rankings, however it is a large public university.
I would tell my child to choose ND because you would probably get better attention from the faculty. There will be no difference in what you are taught and both are considered prestigious programs. Upon graduation advise him to apply at one of the top STEM universities for a graduate degree.
“ND has a four year graduation rate of 91% Berkeley has a four year graduation rate of 71%.”
True but ND has worse grade inflation. On the plus side, your GPA will look better compared to other schools. On the negative, side this keeps people around at ND that would have not passed at Berkeley.
@GnimInTx: Can you please tell me where you get your information on grade inflation? My daughter at ND says there’s no grade inflation there. I don’t have any basis other than she says so to back that up, but if you are right I’d like a way to verify.
—“True but ND has worse grade inflation. On the plus side, your GPA will look better compared to other schools. On the negative, side this keeps people around at ND that would have not passed at Berkeley.”
The idea that kids stay on at ND that would not pass at Berkeley is ridiculous. Exceptionally qualified students attend both colleges.
ND’s grad rates are high because they make sure you get your classes, and because of excellent advising. That are some of the benefits of a private university.
When I was looking at Berkeley a few years ago for the D at ND, we visited Berkeley and bc of budget cuts students at Berkeley were having trouble graduating on time. Our school CC alerted that to us. I asked her this time as I again have a graduating senior who I thought would love Berkeley. Our CC seemed to think things were better, but still not great. I didn’t take D2 to visit Berkeley because of that nor did D2 apply.
I have no bone to pick with Berkeley. I LOVED Berkeley when I visited with D1, and would have been happy to have a kid go there. But the problems with budgets and graduating on time are a worry there. I understand that this year more in state students were admitted to Berkeley because the budget is better. I’m not sure if that will translate to more students graduating on time.
If you don’t live in CA, you’ll be paying OOS tuition for a public university. A great one, but are you okay with that? The dire state of CA’s budget would have me worried. When we visited UCB a few years ago with our daughter, we were told that it would be difficult to graduate in 4 years. It was a moot point because she hated the school, but it certainly matters for people who want their degree in 4 years.
Yes, it is more highly-ranked than ND, but I’d go with ND.
@GnimInTx ND is ranked 18th, UCB #20 in US News and in Forbes #13 vs #35. In US-based ranking ND is higher.
Forbe’s Grateful Grad Index ND at #10, UCB is not ranked. Forbe’s Most Powerful Alumni, ND #5, UCB at #15.
UCB is firing staff due to budget problems.
ND overall has more accomplished students, 91% with ACT score over 30 vs UCB at 63%. ND ACT average is 33 vs 30 for UCB.
The point made above is spot on why pay the same price for a state school with 37,000 students that is firing people when you could go to a private school with 11,000.
Who keeps saying this? It seems to be a meme that keeps getting repeated with no apparent basis, as the four year graduation rates have been rising over the past decades of budget cuts. However, graduation rates are most strongly associated with admission selectivity, which has been rising.
http://www.heri.ucla.edu/GradRateCalculator.php indicates that both overperform the expected 4/5/6 year graduation rates based on some of the admission characteristics of their students. ND does appear to do exceptionally well, although UCB is not bad by this measure.
UCB: 67/83/86 expected, 72/88/91 actual
ND: 71/84/86 expected, 90/95/95 actual
@Ruby789 I am not sure whether ND has inflation, but I have heard lots of people saying that UCB has a GPA deflation.