<p>We do not know that she is not taking out any loans, smokymtgirl. The parents have demanded repayment of $60K. That is not the full cost of attendance at the conservatory, so presumably Ms. Ireland was getting scholarships or loans to cover the gap. She was good enough to get into this prestigious conservatory and the school cares enough about her to help her graduate, despite her family situation. </p>
<p>As to your own situation, there are many schools that offer generous financial aid for students who are qualified for admission. Some schools have less generous financial aid. Some are in between. Good luck to you as you look for a school that meets your educational needs and is affordable for your family.</p>
<p>Colleges can do whatever they want with their own money. If the head of FA or a committee determine that a certain student has a special circumstance, then they can award whatever the see fit. </p>
<p>this student is in her senior year, so any help given is a one time thing. Plus, if her performance talent is of value to the school, then that may have been taken into acct as well. </p>
<p>The school may have also been concerned about any negative publicity that would occur if a senior in this situation all of the sudden had to withdraw from school. Or, they may have found a donor to underwrite a one-time award for this young lady. Or, they may have just thought that this was the “right thing to do.” </p>
<p>The point is: the school can do what it wants with its own money. It doesn’t matter if others might think that other students might deserve the financial help as much as or even more than this student.</p>
<p>*So, this girl, who has gotten a free ride for the first 3 years of college can’t be expected to take out loans for her senior year? *</p>
<p>She may already have loans in her FA pkg. Her parents have contributed for 3 years and it sounds like they paid about $20k per year. She can’t borrow $20k for her senior year. Who would lend her that much money???</p>
<p>The fact that I will have to work for my college education and that it will have added value to me because of that makes me “unbecoming”. That is interesting and I don’t quite know what to make of that. According to the article (which is all that I have read on the subject) the only thing that she did to “earn” this additional scholarship for her senior year was to get cut-off by her parents. I don’t appreciate being labeled as resentful either simply because I had never heard of this before and it sounds strange to me. I said previously “good for her”. </p>
<p>Claiming that this was the only option strikes me as equally absurd. There are always other options. </p>
<p>Many music majors work to earn extra money. I am a cellist and I occasionally perform in a string quartet at various community events to earn extra money. I have never personally worked at a wedding, but musicians that do can earn a lot of money. Some of them teach private music lessons. Some people actually have to take a year off of college to save up some money so that they can continue. If a person really wants to continue their education, then they will even if it means becoming extremely creative. </p>
<p>Again, no one is claiming that a private institution cannot do what they want with their money. Of course they can. </p>
<p>Her parents will never get that $60,000 back unless the school decides to refund because it was not given to the daughter, so I don’t think that she should be too concerned about that. </p>
<p>Also, I stated in a previous post that it would make more sense that a private donor wanted to help her out by donating to the conservatory. Completely within their rights and, indeed, noble, IMO.</p>
<p>Gee – you all sure are quick to jump on someone with a different opinion – “resentful”, “unbecoming”. And mom2collegekids – why do you use so many question marks?</p>
<p>Unless there was a written loan contract or the parents can otherwise convince the judge that there was a valid orally binding loan contract beforehand…the $60k may be viewed as a gift and thus, parents would most likely be laughed out of court for demanding repayment. Especially those with the demonstrated lack of credibility these parents seem to have with the mediators and the judge. </p>
<p>Only thing parents or anyone can do in a gift situation is to withhold it if it has not been given yet. Once it has been given, however, it’s usually the recipient’s to do with as he/she wishes.</p>
<p>A few exceptions are noted for pledged gifts for charities and non-profit groups.</p>
<p>Your attitude is quite unbecoming. Whether or not you previously said “good for her,” your subsequent comments make it clear that you really begrudge the fact that she has been given some kind of scholarship or aid. You have NO idea what she has or has not worked for, whether or not she has any outstanding student loans or scholarships, whether her education has required her to work part time or in the summers, etc. Whether or not someone takes pride in earning a degree should have little to do with whether or not they paid for all of it, received a scholarship, or were fortunate enough to have parents who are full pay. No matter how a college degree is obtained financially, it requires a lot of time, dedication, and hard work to obtain. I would be willing to bet that this girl did much over the years to “earn” whatever help the school was obviously so happy to give her; otherwise, they would have felt no need to do anything.</p>
<p>I think it’s a lot easier mentally to just be happy for people when good things happen to them. God knows it cannot be easy for her to have parents like hers, and no matter how crazy they are, it probably hurts to know that she will never have a normal, loving relationship with them.</p>
<p>If you are smart, smoky, you will go research colleges that will go to bat to get you and find the merit aid, as well as need-based aid, that you need.</p>
<p>It is ridiculous to state the only thing she did was get cut off. That’s a pretty shallow stand. She’s been an excellent student every semester, award winning in her field, already known to the school to be dealing with parent problems.</p>
<p>And, despite the “supposed” (to some) world class authority of USA Today, you do not know what was in that package. For all you know, she earns money already, has work study, and student loans.</p>
<p>Your best bet is to focus on what you need to do.</p>
<p>It is in the best interest of the university for her to graduate on time. I suspect she was declared independent, due to the violent risk posed by her parents - which is not unprecedented.</p>
<p>Consider, if she had to take time off, or had to go part time and work to finish her degree. She no longer graduates in 4 years (yes, one individual doesn’t make that much difference, but it impacts their stats). She is also statistically less likely to graduate at all. The sooner she graduates, the sooner she is able to start a career - and potentially contribute that same money back to the university to help the next person in need. She will forever remember the University that backed her when she was in a difficult situation - the kind of alumnus most colleges crave. This is no different than the decisions made on a regular basis to help one full-need student, or 3 or 4 who have partial need. While it takes the form of a scholarship, that doesn’t mean the money won’t end up being paid back - just that she isn’t obligated to do so.</p>
<p>*Unless there was a written loan contract or the parents can otherwise convince the judge that there was a valid orally binding loan contract beforehand…the $60k may be viewed as a gift and thus, parents would most likely be laughed out of court for demanding repayment. Especially those with the demonstrated lack of credibility these parents seem to have with the mediators and the judge. *</p>
<p>Exactly. And, what would these folks claim was the oral contract??? “uh, your Honor, we had an agreement with our daughter that if she didn’t let us skype-spy on her while sleeping and spy on her computer while she’s in college and tell her profs that she has a mental illness, then she’ll have to pay us back for her college costs.”</p>
<p>*Her parents will never get that $60,000 back unless the school decides to refund because it was not given to the daughter, so I don’t think that she should be too concerned about that. *</p>
<p>While I agree that the student is not obligated to pay the parents back, it’s NOT because the parents paid the school directly. If I have a contract with my child that he will pay me back for a car that I bought him, then it’s irrelevant if I directly give the money to the car dealership and not to him first.</p>
<p>My guess is that CCM --being the small community that it is-- knows the girl very well.</p>
<p>She obviously has enormous talent. I am sure that one part of their thinking is that helping her finish her schooling with them is an “investment” of sorts that may well come back to their advantage in the future. If she should become successful and famous, it obviously will reflect well on them in the “rankings.” Also, should she become famous and successful, she will obviously be disposed to be generous financially to CCM. Should she become successful and famous, she might well donate more than just $20,000 to the school. </p>
<p>So CCM would win all the way around.</p>
<p>And, as I said above, I am sure that CCM knows this girl well. So I also am guessing that they know her situation and family well too. From the sketchy information made available publicly, it seems they have had more than enough negative contact with this girl’s family. CCM wouldn’t post security at performances, etc. just because a student says she doesn’t want her parents to come see her perform. I wonder what the real back story is here–how many times the parents have made contact with professors/administrators, in what manner, etc. What their allegations have been?</p>
<p>This seems a situation where things finally boiled over, not that this came about as a one-off kind of situation. </p>
<p>The people at CCM see the girl on a daily basis and in such a small program I am sure they would notice if the girl was going off the rails in the throes of a mental health crisis.
They have also most likely had enough contact from the parents to know that it’s not the girl who is the nutjob.</p>
<p>you are still just a junior in high school. If your family is as poor as you claim, you will qualify for financial aid. My guess is that if the girl in the situation being discussed did not–could not-qualify-- for traditional financial aid because of her family’s income.</p>
<p>You should get together with your parents now–during your junior year–to run some calculations and the NPCs on some of the colleges you might be interested in attending.</p>
<p>For all you know, you might qualify for some generous financial aid.</p>
<p>And if you are as talented a cellist as the girl in the story is at what she does, maybe your senior year in your program, your school might give you a break too.</p>
<p>“as poor as I claim” – I never made any claim of poverty. My parents are not poor, they are just not paying for college. It is their decision because as has been pointed out numerous times in this thread “they can do whatever they want with their money.” </p>
<p>I am not a “great” cellist, but I do have an amazing teacher who continues to help me grow as a musician. I have been playing since I was 6 and I really love it, but honestly, the music world is extremely cut throat and competitive. I actually kind of empathize with this girl because I have seen a lot of crazy parents. It really kind of turned me off during junior high and high school. I play in a youth orchestra and a string quartet that I love, but I have no plans to major in music or to pursue it as any more than a hobby or to earn a little extra money. It is also a family thing because my brother is a violinist and my younger sister plays the flute, piano, and viola. She is really amazing! </p>
<p>I am not sure what NPCs are. </p>
<p>Everyone deserves a break every now and then, of course. I will just state again that I had never heard of it before which is where all of this began and now I am aware that there are “hardship” funds at colleges or something similar. </p>
<p>I appreciate that you did not resort to calling me “shallow”, “resentful”, or “bitter”. After having read through all of my previous posts on this thread, I am still not sure where that came from, but I guess people can see what they want to see. Happy New Year!</p>
<p>As jym626 said, there is probably more to this than we currently know. </p>
<p>I knew that the girl who was the oldest child of the family who lived across the street from my parents’ home got beaten below the neck and above the knees by her mother regularly because she confided in me and showed me the bruises. I know this went on from at least 9th grade on. The mom died from an OD on alcohol and pills the girl’s freshman year in college. She always wondered if her father (a judge) knew what was going on. </p>
<p>At the tenth high school reunion, I saw a guy who had lived on the street behind me. I asked about his family because they had been acquaintances of my parents. He said that his mother had been institutionalized recently because his dad ( a prominent attorney/banker) had finally gotten up the courage to take the social stigma (it was in the 1970s) of her being mentally ill. He mentioned that “it was a long time coming” and that she had periods of being physically violent toward him since he was ten.</p>
<p>My son had a friend in his hs graduating class (2007) who was so insistent in getting her son to return every call she made to him once he went off to college that the mom called the college freshman roommate anytime her son didn’t return her call. When the roommate stopped answering her calls, the mom called the roommate’s parents to ask them to tell their son to do as the mom wanted. Eventually this was handed over to the college which took steps to back the mom off.</p>
<p>There are crazy parents out there just as there are crazy kids.</p>
<p>I see that many posters find significance in the fact that UC would step in and make a scholarship available for the senior year. As others have posted, there often is discretion and also departmental funds when the situation arises. </p>
<p>I know that my S when he was in college got perks beyond the strict amounts of his merit scholarships because he really got to know the people in the departments in which he majored, he kept his grades at a stellar level and he made a point to talk with them about what could be done and he would ask for what he wanted.</p>
<p>I know that my S when he was in college got perks beyond the strict amounts of his merit scholarships because he really got to know the people in the departments in which he majored, he kept his grades at a stellar level and he made a point to talk with them about what could be done and he would ask for what he wanted.</p>
<p>this is an important point. Maybe her dept profs went to the FA office to plead this girl’s case. If they emphasized that this young lady was an important and valuable part of the dept, then the one year award could be justified.</p>
<p>If this girl had been a freshman and would have needed 4 years of help, it’s unknown whether the school would have been able to justify the expense. </p>
<p>Schools can often justify a win/win situation. If this girl’s talents are strong enough that they think she’ll soon be working professionally, then the school may “win” by having her list UCinn as her alma mater.</p>
<p>Yes, run the NPCs. And bone up on what college aid is about. This girl was supported by her college, in at least her senior year- maybe she was on aid before. We don’t know. </p>
<p>Her college’s support is not ours to argue. It doesn’t matter whether some action is new to us or never heard of before, by us. Surely they had reason and followed policy. I think most of us would agree that this sort of support is often available, totally at the college’s discretion- and should *not *be counted on.</p>
<p>The recent conversation brings up the point that hs families need to learn what the deal is. Not assume. You don’t always get all the aid you need- depends on family circumstances and how much the college has to give, in the first place. You rarely get an entirely free ride, anywhere. And, not all merit aid is automatic just for meeting requisites. College is exhorbitantly expensive. So go hunt down the info, in order to make wise decisions. Finaid.org. Finaid for Dummies. This is a real case where knowledge and action yield better success.</p>
<p>this girl is in CCM, and depending on what side of campus she lives on—Her parents should have some concern----my son graduated 6/12 he said he works with this girl at one of the alumni phone fund raising banks and he claims she’s pretty cool, but for her parents that won’t let go. UC is in a rough part of poor, urban under-developed Cincinnati, more than a few of my son friends have been “jacked” and but for him being a black male I’m not crazy about him living on Short Vine, nevertheless; if this girl is ready the parents need to let it go.</p>
<p>This girl seems to have gotten scholarships at other schools and her parents chose to send her to this school as a full pay. It is a choice lots of families make based on what they think is best for their kid including mine. </p>
<p>Any kid in this country, rich or poor, has some schools they can go to for free just based on a single PSAT test. Lots of schools offset tuition based on PSAT or SAT scores.</p>
<p>So she’ll graduate from college and do what? With no money and no parental help she’s still gonna have a tough time getting an acting career started. Maybe she should have sucked it up for another couple of months instead of going public with all of this and causing an ongoing family power struggle to become a national news event.</p>