My D has narrowed it down to either UCLA or Cal, but now she can’t decide between those two. Can those with experience give us some information about differences between the two schools?
At first we thought Cal would be the natural choice for D because she is very politically lefty. She is LGBTQ and she is very interested in finding the LGBTQ community on campus. We thought UCLA would be more superficial, more typically “southern California” (we’re from the Bay Area so we’re a little prejudiced!) But D was invited to a “Pride Admit Weekend” event at UCLA for students interested in LGBTQ issues, and she was really impressed with UCLA’s efforts at reaching out and making her feel welcome. At Cal, on the other hand, we can’t even seem to find much LGBTQ representation on campus at all. There are a couple of student organizations but the overall impression we were left with after visiting on Cal Day was that when it comes to finding student life and student social connections at Cal, you’re pretty much on your own. UCLA just felt much more welcoming and friendlier. We had thought that D would be turned off by the rah-rah school spirit and the emphasis on NCAA sports, but she feels she can just ignore all that.
It seems obvious that the two schools are going to be very comparable in terms of academic rigor and the overall intelligence of the student body, so that’s not really an issue. D is not sure what she’s going to major in but it will be something in the social sciences (maybe poli sci, maybe gender studies, maybe sociology). So she’s not going to have to endure the extreme competitiveness and stress of students who are STEM majors. That’s a good thing because although D is very interested in social issues and doesn’t like people who can’t have serious discussions about these things, she is also not a competitive person and doesn’t do well in high-stress situations. We got the feeling at Cal that the students put a lot of pressure on themselves – UCLA felt more laid back. But that might be a mistaken impression.
D is a little worried about the fast pace of the quarter system. I went to a quarter system school myself and I didn’t like it at all. But if a school is otherwise the right fit I don’t think that should be the deciding factor (I did like my school very much, in spite of the annoying quarter system).
As you can tell, I’m leaning towards UCLA myself, but ultimately it is D’s decision and she is very torn. Any advice would be helpful!
Political science, gender studies, and sociology are not competitive or selective majors at UCB, and probably not at UCLA. But political science may have more grade grubbing prelaw students.
Ok, I could blah blah blah on about why, but from reading your post I will put it simply - UCLA all the way! From the outside looking in (at your post) it seems clear UCLA is the way to go. It would be fun for her to get out of Norcal for 4 years (yet it is very easy for them to come back), the housing at UCLA is lovely, the campus is nicer, weather is fantastic, and she will still get all the political involvement she wants to be part of. Congrats on two great options, but being up north with you, I think it is great to change things up. Also, the social sciences are great at UCLA. Of course, both schools offer great academics, but I actually think there is more variety at UCLA. People are into a lot of different things there - I think she will be exposed to more at UCLA than Cal, particularly being you are already in Norcal. Change is good. And even if you aren’t into sports, it is actually fun to have them around. Good luck - it’s a nice decision to have!
For many students Berkeley is 4 years of a high stress situation. And yes, your feeling while visiting the campus is correct, at least for the majority of students that I know.
Wow, this is basically my exact conundrum. I’m actually from LA so for me UCB would be the change, but really i’m pretty much struggling with this same situation. I don’t deal very well with highly competitive environments or a ‘culture of stress’ as i’ve heard Berkeley is, but I assume UCLA is probably very similar. I’m an anthropology major so I basically want to go wherever the best program is, and i’ve heard Cal’s anthro dept. is better. Overall i’m pretty torn, does anyone know anything about either school that might make it a better choice over the other?
Cal has the better academic reputation but the Bruins get literally “the most applicants” of any school in the nation. It’s more popular overall. Don’t think it’s all rah rah. The Rose Bowl and Pauley Pavilion rarely get sold out for home games.
@NicolaElle I am guessing you have been to both. Take “the better program” thought out of the equation and ask yourself, where would I be happiest? You don’t have to go 6 hours further from home for it to be the right school. It may be in your back yard. I don’t know anything about which anthro department is better/stronger, but I would think the school that you will do your best at is the one you really see yourself feeling good about attending. Have you checked out things like dorms on both campuses? They are both excellent in academics, but sooo different in style. You are lucky to have both as choices, go with your gut. There is no wrong choice, just the right one - for you.
At our kid’s HS located in Southern CA, Berkeley is viewed as a better academic reputation school, but having visited both, I liked the UCLA campus and feel better. I am not biased since my kid is not going to either. I also heard Berkeley is slightly more competitive, cut throat.
My impression of both aligns with the previous comments - in general Cal has the better academic reputation and students are more academically focused and stressed. D and I visited Cal 3 times, including Cal Day for attending freshmen. On our visits the overall feel/mood to the campus was gloomy and grim (Cal day excepted, obviously, since that’s a big welcome party for new students), and somewhat deserted. Not many kids running around, and the ones we saw were quiet. The dorm situation is a little weird, with them being a little spread out off-campus and the closer dorms being the traditional older-style cramped halls. There’s one really nice dorm but it’s pretty far off-campus. One super-nice thing about the Cal dorms is that every one has a computer room with onsite tutors, so it’s easy to drop-in for help, and every dorm has its own mailroom. If you like a heavily urban vibe and were very focused on academic success, then Cal would be a good choice.
We also had at 3 visits to UCLA, which is where D is now in her sophomore year. The campus is huge compared to Cal, so definitely a lot more walking. The dorms are much nicer, and organized into clusters on one side of campus so it has a more community feeling. There’s also a lot of variety in dorm types, with suites, plazas, and traditional halls. Not every dorm has a mailroom, so some kids end up having to haul their Amazon packages up the Hill. The food is reportedly much better, with lots of options in where to eat and plenty of variety. On every visit to UCLA the campus mood was social and friendly - plenty of kids in groups chatting, playing frisbee, soccer, sitting on the grass, etc. Definitely much more upbeat and social, and D says the attitude is not cut-throat amongst her peers. For the OP’s D, I think UCLA is probably a better choice.
The really nice dorm at Berkeley–I’m assuming you mean Clark Kerr–Is not really far from campus, Maybe a ten-minute walk to the edge of campus. And yes while UCLA has better dorm food, after freshman year almost all student decide to live off campus and then Berkeley has the way better food situation in terms of accessibility, variety and affordability. Berkeley is definitely a college town, not a heavily urban place at all. The campus winds up Strawberry Canyon–there are shuttles that take you there.The UC Botanical Garden is gorgeous and very peaceful. Student love to run on the fire trail with views of the bay and Golden Gate Bridge, and Tilden Park offers outstanding hiking, biking and even camping opportunities. UCLA is great and might be a better fit for many students but some of the information about Berkeley isn’t totally accurate. I live here and I don’t recognize the town of campus that some people are describing.
Well, the great thing is that you can’t really make a bad decision here. OP, I’m a Cal grad who has a lot of relatives at both Berkeley, UCLA and otehr UCs. I really honestly believe your daughter would like either place.
But if your – and her – gut says, I just LIKE UCLA more – than pick UCLA and don’t turn back. Don’t pay attention to the “Berkeley is perceived as academically stronger” thoughts… fact is UCLA is a world-class school and so is Cal, they may have their own strengths and weaknesses but academically the difference between the two is small and growing smaller by the year. I don’t believe that UCLA students are less stressed – they just seem like it because they’re in shorts and T-shirts for much of the year. And some people prefer the quarter system because it gives them access to more courses (and if you have a class you dislike it’s over sooner.) It really is a personal preference, but students adjust to either
Advise your daughter to go with her heart, and then dive into either school’s incredibly rich, rewarding, frustrating, challenging, and ultimately life-enhancing culture.
With the exceptions of the engineering/CS, pre-med, pre-law, etc, none of the Berkeley alums or the impression I got from visiting Berkeley gave the impression it was cutthroat or competitive.
And a younger relative who is a current undergrad in engineering on some full-ride scholarship doesn’t seem to be put off so far after 2 years at Berkeley.
UCLA alums I know…including older relatives seem much more rah rah regarding UCLA sports/spirit than their Berkeley counterparts.
In this one respect, Berkeley leans much closer to my LAC when I attended in the mid-late '90s…cept Berkeley students weren’t nearly as apathetic/anti-pathetic towards college sports/athletics as my LAC’s student campus culture tended to be to the lament of some athlete classmates.
UCB engineering has direct admission to majors, unlike some other flagships that require pre-engineering students to complete for entry to their majors. So it does not encourage cutthroatism that way, like the business major does. L&S CS requires a 3.3 GPA to enter, but two of the three courses the GPA is based on explicitly do not grade on a curve.
My DD at UCB does not find it to be cuthroat at all, but she does find that she has to up her game because there are so many really talented students. She was pre-Haas and was accepted in Feb. There’s a lot to be said for laid back, but if your DD thrives on challenge then don’t rule out UCB.
UCLA and UCB are both great. H is a Bruin, DD is a Golden Bear. Other daughter could have been either but is a Sagehen. Overall, husband wanted DD to choose UCB because he thought it was a better college. She really enjoys it, but Westwood (if you can finish up in 4 years) is a great place to be.
Westwood is, I think, safer than the surrounding areas of Berkeley. I was kinda disappointed by the surrounding areas of Berkeley. Berkeley struck me as a CA college in the middle of slightly run down NY city. If I had to choose, I would choose UCLA even though I feel Berkeley overall has a better academic reputation.
I know many parents whose kids are going to both UCLA and Berkeley, and it seems true that food is definitely better at UCLA. I have been to the dorms area at UCLA also, and there is a kinda of young yuppie college feel to it. Overall I found UCLA vibe to be more energetic and brighter. Berkeley is somewhat gloomy.
I didn’t get the “unsafe” vibe from Berkeley’s campus at all when I visited or from relatives’ experiences there from the late 70’s to the present.
And comparing it to run down areas of NYC is laughable…especially considering I am a New York native and my childhood/early teen years coincided with the tail-end of NYC’s high crime era in the 1980’s and early-mid '90s. It’s like comparing apples to durians.