Agree with @twogirls – if this becomes a decision your family needs to make my criteria would be (in this order):
For now it seems best to apply widely and see how thngs turn out. Good luck.
This is true. That is why I wrote affordability without hardship.
My first reaction throughout reading this thread is that UCSC and UCR are very good universities. At least in our experience very good graduate programs (at least including master’s, PhD, and DVM programs, I have heard the same for MD’s) have students who come from a very, very wide range of universities. Two of my family members attended universities ranked lower than either UCSC or UCR and then got accepted to very good graduate programs (“Ivy League” and/or “top 5”), and another family member attended a small university in Canada which has probably never showed up in the same ranking as any of the UC’s but then got accepted to a very good PhD program in the US.
What you do as an undergraduate student is going to matter a lot more than where you do it.
For a chemistry major, “grad school” could mean a master’s degree a PhD, or something that more or less takes you away from chemistry (MD, law, …). PhD’s are typically fully funded (with a stipend which is typically minimal), but are as others have said are very competitive for admissions. Master’s degrees are typically not funded. I would personally rather spend the big bucks for the master’s degree at a highly ranked (and possibly private) university rather than for the bachelor’s degree.
This is going to depend upon your finances and your preferences. If a master’s degree (unfunded) is likely, I would put “graduate with a bachelor’s degree and a master’s degree with no debt, and don’t mess up the parent’s retirement funds” way ahead of “attend an out of state university that is ranked higher than UCR or UCSC”.
I also don’t know which UW you are referring to, although I am guessing Washington.
I agree with all of this. How I would rank Colorado State versus UCR, or ASU or Utah, I have no idea (unless the student is going into veterinary medicine of course).
And I would not completely give up on UCD, UCI, … for chemistry with just a few B’s.
We agreed with this also. A “good fit” is important. However, this will be a decision for each pair of parents to make for their kids.
Switching from one side of chemistry to another side of chemistry would be a significantly smaller shift than is common for undergraduate students.
One daughter is in the first year of a PhD. What we saw in the admissions process includes that admissions is very competitive, and anything that you did in high school basically does not matter (including any B’s that might have been obtained). Our daughter had a lot of research experience both as an undergraduate student and in a job after getting her master’s degree, and this helped her A LOT in PhD admissions (including references that came from people she had done the research for). However, good research opportunities will exist at any of a very wide range of universities, including UCSC and UCR.
Of the schools that our daughter applied to for a PhD, one has a very good but unfunded master’s degree program. It seemed pretty clear for perhaps the last two months of the process that if she had not gotten into the PhD program then she would have instead gotten accepted to the master’s program. We never figured out whether or not this would have been worth getting for someone who wanted to go on for a PhD. The relative value to help with PhD admissions of another year or two of working at her existing job at a research facility versus a year or two for a master’s degree is something we never figured out. Obviously the job would have been financially easier for us.
But leaving some money in the bank to help with a master’s degree if this comes up might not be a bad idea (assuming that this is feasible).
Having thought about this a bit more, I still think that UCR and UCSC are very good. You might want to also consider some of the California State Universities.
Just chiming in to say I completely agree that not putting too much weight on any specific academic or career plans formed in HS. Many people change plans during college, which makes sense because there are so many options they wouldn’t even have had a basis to consider in HS. And of course kids keep evolving and developing, sometimes in unexpected ways.
And I agree this is underscores the practical wisdom in not paying more than you can comfortably afford, as that takes the pressure off to follow any given preconceived path that supposedly justified a financial stretch. It also suggests colleges and universities with many different good programs from which to choose are generally preferable.
Fortunately none of the sorts of public research universities this kid is considering are bad choices in terms of having lots of good programs. But that still leaves affordability.
During Thanksgiving dinner, one parent told us their graduating senior only applied to the top 6 UCs and CPSLO and SDSU. We try to persuade the daughter to add some safeties such as UCR and CPP. No. She won’t do it and did not tell us why.
I wonder for OP, do you know why you or your kid prefer other UCs than UCR/UCSC? Is it the ranking, the fit or something else? By finding out the answer, OP can figure is it worth the extra $10K to $20K to get it by going OOS? Good Luck.
I think it’s always a good idea for students in CA to apply to a few out of state universities, as long as they are affordable and appealing to the student. The CA publics can be unpredictable, and since most CA publics release their decisions very late in the season, it’s a good idea to think ahead so that the student will have options.
Once all the decisions come out, your student can weigh their options based on what is offered to them at each university. This isn’t just about how “good” the university is as a whole, but in the end, did the student get the major they wanted? Were they offered merit or honors? etc. Those factors can make a big difference.
Don’t go into this process expecting that your student will be accepted at certain UCs and not others, based on a couple of B grades. The UCs are unpredictable. UCB is notorious for accepting some students with lower GPA, but great PIQs and ECs, who did not receive any other UC acceptances… and on the other hand, we’ve seen UCSC reject or waitlist some very strong students at our kids’ HS. Your student should apply and write the best PIQs they can, and then see where they are accepted.
Also, I notice that this whole thread is talking about UCR / UCSC… but don’t forget about UC Merced!!! US News now ranks Merced higher than UCR / UCSC, and it has a lot to offer its students. There are some very solid schools in the CSU system, as well.
Your story reminds of a student last year who said they were rejected at SDSU but accepted to UCB.
There’s not necessarily a pecking order regardless of what people believe.
Thank you for all the answers. To clarify why we are hesitant about UCR/UCSC, UCSC has a small chemistry department with only a couple of faculty members having anything to do with physical chemistry, while other schools have dozens of faculty members doing that, so I suspect this may affect both teaching and research opportunities. UCR is bigger but, as someone said it in the discussion, Bay Area kids may have a hard time fitting in there. We also pay some attention to the rankings; not the general ones but the chemistry department rankings; they put UCR and UCSC way behind mid-tier UCs, UIUC, UDab, UW-Madison, and Purdue.
That’s fair but look at career outcomes. You know what US News, as an example, based department rankings on ? Solely opinions of other school deans - and nothing else. Or as they call it peer assessment.
Ask each school for career outcomes to make a true assessment.
Good luck.
You make a good point. My suggestion is that your daughter contact the schools of interest and ask about research opportunities and the percentage of students who participate.
Your daughter can also apply and ask questions during accepted students days, if you/she are able to attend.
Thanks. Let me ask another question. Does anyone know how different UC schools, Purdue, Udub, UIUC, and UW-Madison compare in terms of overcrowding, being able to register for classes students want, the availability of professors/TAs to help with homework, and any other ways the university can support a student? I keep hearing discouraging stories from UCB, UCSB etc. but I wonder if it is any better at UCSC or out of state public schools.
Is your daughter able to reach out to current students and ask? There are also parent groups- I found them to be very helpful.
Is your D super confident on chemistry? UCSB’s College of Creative Studies might be one to look at. A friend’s daughter loves it there and she wasn’t a straight A kid, but has a very, very strong interest in marine biology. Chemistry and Physics are both offered (the school offers 9 majors total). There is a ton of focus on advising and support here.
As a CA family, I can relate to the question you’re asking. And based on our experience with our D22, the answer we came to was more about overall 4 year experience than ranking in any particular major. Which turned out to be right for her since she changed her major about 5 mins after arriving 
D22 (who was a straight A student but not keen on staying in CA), applied to a few UCs but focused mostly on OOS schools. Her strategy was to apply EA for a wide range of places—Oregon, Vermont, Wisconsin and Michigan. She was accepted to all of them, with merit at Oregon and Vermont. This was a huge relief as we waited for other results. She used the months between Dec-March to research her acceptances. Then, she did get into UCLA and UCSB and is now happily a junior at UCLA. All to say, your kid will change A LOT between now and May. Apply to the UCs even if they seem like a long shot. The waitlists move, sometimes by a lot. You might be out $70 but if you’re already doing the PIQs, may as well.
We will take the same approach with S26, but likely preference schools that fit him better. OSU, Western Washington, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and UDub are likely to make his list. The only UCs he’ll apply for are UC Santa Cruz, Davis and Berkeley. For safety schools in CA, we will look at Chico, Humboldt, Sac, SJ State. The goal for us is have options that fit a range of scenarios to help him find the sweet spot of good experience, good academics, good financial fit.
TLDR: I would not choose UCR over an OOS with a rep for a great social life. I would look closely at Santa Cruz vs an OOS option and preference SC slightly but not overwhelmingly (mostly due to a non-commuter culture and a gorgeous location)
Answering twogirls, we know some students/parents with experiences with UCB, UCLA, UCSB but not many in other states. One parent has two kids and said that UIUC experience with classes/support was much better than Cal. Regarding parent groups, do you mean on CC or some other places?
Other places. My daughter’s school has a parent FB group.
S23 has had no problems with getting his classes at UCSC. When required major classes have filled up they have opened new sections to accommodate the extra students. I think his largest physics and math classes had 200 students.
@dankuski this is a suggestion though mind you not 100 % accurate but I started following the various Reddit threads on the schools my student is interested in to see what the students are complaining about etc
Most schools have academic support centers…but this question here is very professor dependent…no matter the school.
You’ll have both good and not so good experiences - especially at large bureaucracies.
You can ask about office hours.
As far as I know, there is a significant number of bay area kids in UCR who all live on campus or nearby. I would get in touch with some of them(may be following ucr reddit) and assess first hand the concerns you might have about the school. As you can sense, there is a significant bias towards attending UCSC/UCR/UCM which is also reflected in the posts here.