<p>I have heard of Rousseau, and I disagree. My point is, I NEVER AGREED TO ANY SOCIAL CONTRACT. I’ve found nothing in the Constitution saying that all adults living in this country must accept it by default. I’ve never been a parent, but I’m pretty sure that mothers don’t routinely sign their babies over to the state. It’s impossible that I could have accepted a contract without my knowledge, and absurd that I could become the property of society without my consent.</p>
<p>If you agree to and want to participate in a given social order, then you agree to give up certain “natural rights” in order to have society work in the given social order. Which then leads to civic responsibility/duty.</p>
<p>Of course the social contract does not mention a draft. I was pointing out the reason for such a draft and why it is possible. You accepted that contract upon being a citizen, you dont need to sign any papers, you automaticlly accept it if you choose to be a citizen.</p>
<p>According to you,
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<p>If I don’t owe anything to society, why should I have to give up my rights?</p>
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<p>I challenge you to support that using any federal law, national document, or anything that would hold up in a court of law.</p>
<p>Just because a contract exists doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s fair. Sure, you can argue that by gaining the nice services of my country, I would have an obligation to protect it. But what if the services of my country is not worth the price of death? Would you ever agree to this following situation: A dealer gives you nice shoes but in return you have to saw off your legs after using them for a couple of years? Of course not because it’s not a fair trade. The same works in the case of a draft. The country gives me finite things like roads, an public education, freedom etc. And yet it asks for something infinite in return: my life( to clearify, using someone as a pawn during war means that they are affectively toying with that person’s life). So I think that it would only be fair if they give me something infinite in return. But they can’t. So why should I agree to this unfair contract?</p>
<p>I was debating this with my parents at lunch today, and something I’ve noticed is that all the supporters of the draft will NOT be affected by it. For all those who support it and are not of draft age, tell me, did you ever serve in the military? If not, then you have no right to tell people to do something that you yourself did not do.</p>
<p>umm no, he’s not in favor of reenacting the draft, ***, this is a obvious slander campaign against mccain. he didn’t mean it in the way it was blown up to be, it was taken out of context. i would love to spare with any liberal, if only we could vote bush for a 3rd term, that’d be awesome. he’s nowhere as bad as people make him out to be.</p>
<p>^I think we’ll need a separate thread for that, this one’s gotten pretty off-topic as it is…</p>
<p>Yeah, lets put it this way, since we’re on CC. All of us study alot/work hard to maintain a 4.0 gpa, then you have John who is lazy, and works once in awhile, so he has a 2.0 gpa. Lets take 1.0 gpa out of our gpa and give it to him to make it fair. -_- come on.</p>
<p>Also, i can’t wait to see if the same liberal CCers now will have the same view 20 years in life as they do right now. Since after working hard in college and attending post college education, seeing a huge portion of your incoming to people you don’t know ha, ha, ha…</p>
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<p>your right, I dont thik you should have to, but if you want all the thrills and frills of civilized life in a police state, where you work as a slave to the rich and dont even realize it, they you give up those natural rights.<br>
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<p>There is no distinct section of federal law or document that says such. All federal, local and national documents in their entirety and the entire judiciary system say this and they entirely make the social contract we abide to. Example, It is a natural right of any human to go outside and kill another human and there will be no consequences for such a action. Thogh if you decide to live in society or on the land of a given socirty with a social contract, citizens have given up the natural rights such as killing another human and are kept in check by a judiciary system and or govt. Look at the wild Animal world, males rape females all the time, they do it with no consequences, as they have no social contract unless in a pack. Thogh we as Humans choose to live in society and we give up the freedom to do such a act, and if we break the law we break our social contract, thus we are punished. But we are only punished because we accepted to be a citizen or acted in a land where they had a social contract. </p>
<p>Go to a remote island with no govt or judiciary system, rape and kill somebody. No consequences at all. </p>
<p>So all the people in jail, broke our law(social contract) and thus are being punished for such.</p>
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<p>Of course. In that situation it’s fair. But, like i said before, a draft is not fair because it forces you to give your life to the government. So, since they are forcing you to risk taking on an infinite loss( death), they ought to give infinite returns prior to the draft.</p>
<p>Im 23 and in still good reach of a draft. But lets be fair here. Is it worth loosing a country, and then either being enslaved or killed by another country or you try and fight for what you already have and possibly die fighting for it. To me, its worth it but it has to be a just reason. A draft for iraq is not worth it, but if Russia and china were invading the pacific coast, id be glad to fight and die. But again I don’t have a choice. Either I fight or I go to jail for 5+ years. Knowing me Id fight every time.</p>
<p>Dr.Horse a draft would serve this country good, most of the men in this country need discipline and be shaped into real men. I’m all for it!</p>
<p>20 bucks says if you in draft age you would feel differently. Forcing people to go to war will not by any means shape them into men. My neighbors son just was honorably discharged from the service when his convoy was ambushed. He was one of 2 survivors in his humvee. He now refuses to leave his house, suffers from post traumatic stress disorder, and is traumatized for life from the people he has had to kill in fire fights. </p>
<p>Too wrap it up he has watched his friends die, and killed people and is on the verge of a psychotic break. </p>
<p>So putting a bunch of terrified teenagers/early 20 year olds in the middle of war zone with their very young life on the line and telling them if you dont kill Charlie they will kill you, will do a hell of a lot good. </p>
<p>Think of the families. It will be different then those who enlist because draftees will have been forced to die for their country (in my opinion that takes away the very idea of freedom this country was founded upon). </p>
<p>So I tell you what I will give you an M4 Carbine, drop in the middle of Baghdad were anyone could be a suicide bomber or enemy guerilla and you come back after you have been shot at and killed people and tell me if it made you a man.</p>
<p>YOU ARE NOT F****** RAMBO!!!</p>
<p>Also I am saying this after taking the Navy Seal Trident Challenge and passing it with a score good enough to become a Seal one day which I might. I am all for people who want to serve and give their lives for their country but forcing people will just create unnecessary casualities.</p>
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<p>If that happened, we would go into nuclear war. There won’t be time for a draft as the war would be over in a matter of hours.</p>
<p>Dr. Horse, you make some good points about the social contract. And if it came to that, yeah, I would rather fight and die rather than live as a slave to another country, but I still wouldn’t support a draft. Analogy: If I was a journalist and thought the government was doing a good job, I’d be happy to put in a good word for them. But as for a law requiring all media to cast the government in a positive light, that’s another matter…</p>
<p>@fendey: Sure, let’s force our young men into an unjustified war to kill and watch their friends die, in complete contradiction with the freedom our country is supposed to stand for, then send them back to their families with missing limbs… yeah, that’ll do our country good.</p>
<p>StellaNova, people like you crack me up, BUSH was given false info. by the CIA. He was told there was WWD’s, so he went to iraq. He didn’t find them, but we can’t leave now because iraq won’t be stable. we must mobilize it first. and yes setellanova these kids need to be made into men.</p>
<p>and also, you’re disillusioned if you truly think obama will get our troops out during his term, i respect mccain for being honest. mccain fought for our country, what has obama done? Barak Hussein Obama, it says it all.</p>
<p>Did I say one word about Bush? Or McCain? Or Obama? Who cares who was given false information, the war is still unjustified. My point is that a draft would NOT be good for this country. Sending our young people to war won’t make them into “men”, it will break them in mind and body. (See john’s post.)</p>
<p>Just curious, have you ever fought in a war?</p>
<p>Yes the war is unjustified, invading a country that had WWD and a dictaor is really unjustified…</p>
<p>This isn’t directly aiming to you, but i hate when peope blame bush for the bad economy, when it isn’t his fault at all. But most americans don’t know anything lol, only 3 percent actual read books.</p>
<p>Interventionism never works, it never has and never will. Now fendy I don’t know your politics and I respect what they are, but the assumption that this war is just, is foolish. America was made to entice Liberty and Freedom, it wasn’t made to force it down peoples throats and police the world. It is in the founding of America, the documents which resist and warn against the ideologies you have which are congruent with neoconservatism. Now of course neoconservatism didn’t exist in the 1700’s or 1800’s, but the ideals still existed and weren’t formulated into a party yet. Read the Federalist papers and works by Jefferson, Edison, Madison, etc. All of them warn us against this. Il provide you with some quotes.</p>
<p>“Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none.”
–Thomas Jefferson </p>
<p>“America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.”
–Abraham Lincoln</p>
<p>“The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home.”
–James Madison</p>
<p>“If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.”
– James Madison</p>
<p>“Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”
–Benjamin Franklin</p>
<p>We shouldn’t care what other countries do, its not our job. If there is a dictator, its not our job to help those people. America has a job showing the people of the world, that freedom and liberty is possible and they need to want it for themselves, just as when America was being formed.</p>