My son is lucky to have both options. He’s admitted to civil in both cases (and is interested in architecture, if a minor is available and feasible)
He is more of a collaborative, hands-on learning style kid. Intrinsically motivated to do what he’s interested in, not so interested in trying to get the top score just to be the best. I’m trying to gauge if there is a meaningful difference between these two large public schools in this regard. For example:
Competition versus cooperation among the students
Harsh forced curves in classes to weed kids out
Hands-on learning opportunities and projects (individually and in teams)
Academic focus / caliber of fellow students (likes to have fun but not a party school)
He is at a high school where everyone cares about doing well and being a good student, but it’s highly collaborative. He’s also considering Cal Poly SLO, which is strong on these fronts - but in case he wants something larger, I’m trying to compare these other two options.
Any thoughts / advice? Visiting both in a couple of weeks…
One thing to consider is that a potential CivE who’s particularly interested in architecture might want to weigh the possibility of Architectural Engineering rather than Civil. This will automatically include some studio-based architectural design, and it will replace the elements of CivE that aren’t related to architecture with MechE and EE type content that’s relevant to the engineering of buildings. Of your son’s three schools, Cal Poly is the only one with an ArchE major. https://www.calpoly.edu/major/architectural-engineering. It could be worth doing a side-by-side comparison of the CivE and ArchE curricula at Cal Poly, to see whether the availability of ArchE at SLO might be a selling point for him.
As for collaborative vs. competitive, I think students in engineering at schools like UCB and UIUC not only are inclined to be collaborative, but have to be. I think of the toughness at schools like this more as being unforgiving than as being cutthroat, if that comes across as a meaningful distinction. Whether there’s a significant difference in this aspect of the culture between the engineering programs these two flagships… I tend to doubt it, but maybe others will be able to draw a distinction. There may be a difference in access to exposure to architecture, but the problem will be not only what is available, but also what he’ll be able to make time for. A summer intensive may end up being a better way to get some architecture studio experience.
What’s the cost difference? Has he visited all three?
Illinois and Cal will both have giant classes early on with discussions and labs taught by graduate assistants. Cal Poly won’t. Their classes are small and they use TAs very sparingly.
I second the ArchE angle, if that’s his interest. Neither Illinois or Cal offer it.
His classes at Cal Poly will be small and taught be professors. At Berkeley, they will be absolutely enormous and impersonal and often taught by grad students. If he has tons of AP and DE credit, that could make Berkeley more palatable since he would avoid the over-impacted lower-division classes. The academic club scene at Cal Poly is phenomenal, is loads of fun and leads to internships and jobs. The campuses absolutely could not be more different—Berkeley is urban and gritty and has crime, SLO is sleepy and suburban and safe. Both campuses are fantastic for civil and architecture.
UCB, UIUC, and CPSLO directly admit to engineering majors, so it is not a “compete for grades for secondary admission” situation like (for example) Texas A&M or NCSU.
We’re in state for CA, though UIUC is relatively adorable oos. So cost isn’t a major constraint or factor.
He has visited Cal and SLO, and we’re revisiting those + going to UIUC in a couple of weeks.
Comments here so far are reinforcing my impressions / reservations about Cal/UIUC from a learning environment perspective… curious to hear any counterpoints…
He doesn’t have AP/DE credits. His school has Honors classes instead of APs. The big impersonal classes are a downside. Still wondering if they are all theoretical and classroom vs more project / hands-on opportunities?
Urban is a plus from his standpoint; we live in SF so he’s a city kid.
However, when I was in college, most of the “cutthroat competition” stories involved pre-meds or pre-business majors (business had competitive secondary admission).
Exactly what I’m wondering. He did get admitted directly to the major in all three but… are students studying together, sharing notes, helping each other, collaborating on projects in teams etc? This is more his HS experience (even at a private HS full of eager beavers)
For the record my husband is a Cal alum (ugrad and phd) so we have some idea … but wondering if engineering might be different in terms of more “applied” and project/team work based.
However, if fitting an official minor around a civil engineering major is too voluminous a course load (especially if he has no advanced placement), the student may want to consider just taking architecture courses of interest without worrying about an official minor.
There is a misconception that this is an either/or proposition. You can have both, and at Cal Poly, students do. For example, at some schools, even highly ranked ones, engineering students take a math series different than math majors. It’s not as proof driven, following the engineering just has to be good enough philosophy. Cal Poly engineers take the same classes that math and physics majors do.
The advantage though is that almost every class has a lab. That’s where the learn by doing comes in (along with clubs and work experience). The math may predict when something will fail, but the labs test the results of the math.
Economics was probably a somewhat capacity-limited major at the time, though it was probably auto-admit with a not-that difficult GPA in the prerequisites. However, most of those prerequisites were shared with pre-business majors chasing competitive admission into the business major.
Since you are revisiting all of these universities, this is a really good thing for your son to talk about with students in his major, I think.
My son is an engineering student at Cal, and he feels that each engineering major has a different vibe.
Cal has a reputation for competitive students, but my impression is that this can vary a LOT depending on major and program. My son was looking for a more collaborative vibe, and he also really liked Cal Poly SLO and UC Davis. He feels there is plenty of collaboration in engineering at Cal but he does feel that that the prevailing culture and vibe varies by major.
