UMass Honors vs Tufts University

Narrowed down to final two schools.
UMass Amherst, w/Honors College $29,000/yr
Tufts University $77,000/yr
S20 has visited each campus and loved both. UMass Instate Tuition. Also received Dean’s and Adams Scholarships. Interested in Natural Sciences, Linguistics, International Relations. S20 is ready and happy to submit deposit (due May 1) to UMass, but I still harbor doubts when I read excerpts such as below…We are not wealthy, but due to being past retirement age and still working, we could afford Tufts full pay without resorting to loans. Can anyone help me justify a $192,000 premium over four years? Or not?

following cut/pasted from cc:
@ChemAM: I think what @homerdog is trying to say is that…people pay significantly more money to these schools (LACs and mid-sized private universities) as a “premium” of sorts for the level of individualized attention students receive and tight-knit environments that support students’ mental health; this is how most LACs and private universities market themselves to students. At most large universities/public universities, intimate connections do not happen on nearly as wide of a scale as LACs (think 500-person classes) and private mid-sized universities…at many LACs and mid-sized private universities, the level of individualized attention that students receive and the tight-knit community that supports them in their endeavors… are the things that people attending these colleges believe they are paying additional money for compared to a public university…

If your student likes UMass Amherst it is hard to justify that much of a difference. Some students seem to thrive in a large university, others seem to need the more intimate environment. That price difference would make a good down payment on a condo for your son after graduating.

Thank you for comments. Yes, he is attracted to the large campus and location of UMass–it’s like a city attached to a nice college town.
Tufts also appeals with 5,000 student campus on the hill with proximity to Boston.
Bowdoin, Colby, and other NESCAC schools rejected due to small size and locatons.

In an effort to get more advice I will add a third, long shot option. While he plans to deposit to UMass or Tufts before May 1st, he will also remain on waitlist for Cornell. We would most likely be full-pay at $75,000 per year.

going once…

going twice…

OP, this isn’t meant to sway you one way or the other, as that’s a very personal decision. Although this topic comes up quite a bit on CC, yours is a bit different in that it appears you / your kid like both environments (probably would sway me to UMASS if my kid really liked it and it had a good program in his/her interest).

Full disclosure - I went to UMASS in the 80s. Loved college and have done quite well professionally, although in a different arena than what I studied. S attends a highly selective private (turned down honors program at state flagship) and is full pay (or I should say we are). Also, I realize that all schools, including state flagships, have been upgraded in many ways over the past 35 yrs so my experience at UMASS isn’t exactly relevant.

A few points:

  1. You can do well from anywhere. In fact most of your outcome will be based on you and what you do, not where you go. Certain schools will give you advantages and opportunities but it's still up to you and your engagement.
  2. The Honors Program will make a state school smaller so there is a chance for more intimacy if that's desired.

So, why did we choose the small highly selective private when my own experience was a good one from a state flagship? We felt the school and environment made for a sort of ecosystem that just wasn’t available at the state school. Now part of that had to do with my experience. I did well, pushed myself, etc. but there were tons of kids just going through the motions (at the state school). Having saved for potential college costs for many years, we were able to pay for, what we feel, is a better experience.

Better how? I view S’ school as an environment where the entire student body is in the Honors Program. They’re all really smart kids who were tops in their HSs. They all want to succeed either academically, professionally, or both. The basic attitude is work hard academically first, then everything else second. It’s a pretty impressive attitude and environment.

The classes in every subject have been small (including intros). Professor engagement has been high. Even lecture based classes turn in to discussions. Unlike most large schools where students tend to move off campus ASAP (generally after 1 yr), S’ school has a mandatory 3 yr on campus residence policy and many stay all 4 yrs. It’s a community. They love it. They don’t want to leave it.

The career placement and alumni strength is superb. S is a junior and has lots of senior friends. Looking at where the juniors are interning and the seniors are scheduled to work is more than impressive. Again, I know this can happen anywhere, but it’s more the norm here. I feel that’s because of the “ecosystem” of attracting high achievers, surrounding them with great professors, speakers, enrichment programs both in and outside the classroom, connecting them with successful alum who want to give back, etc. That ecosystem is a real thing. Hard to quantify, but don’t kid yourself, it’s meaningful.

It’s just an environment that oozes success.

So when we had the choice, we compared it to our college experiences and basically said, what do we want for our kids? We are fortunate we can make that decision. I know many will read this and think, “what a waste of money”. We don’t feel that way. In fact, 100% the opposite. It’s been an amazing three yrs and will result in a great education, tremendous personal growth, a lifetime network / friendship with many great kids who will go on to do really cool things, great job opportunities, and the list goes on and on. In our case it also helped that S wanted to explore and probably live in a different part of the country as there’s not much going on in FL for a young person.

Everyone’s situation is different. I’m sure you’ll do what’s right for you and your family.

“We are not wealthy, but due to being past retirement age and still working, we could afford Tufts full pay without resorting to loans. Can anyone help me justify a $192,000 premium over four years? Or not?”

If you’re both working past retirement,I would save the money for retirement since your son likes both colleges. If he likes Cornell better than both, then you could discuss it if he gets off the waitlist.

"this is how most LACs and private universities market themselves to students. "

You can talk all you want about the benefits of any university, LAC or otherwise, until it comes to telling people how to spend their hard earned money.

Hey there! I started a virtually IDENTICAL thread on the $200,000 difference for us between UW-Seattle and Reed College in Portland. Our circumstances are similar and I think our conclusions are similar.

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/2184629-are-liberal-arts-colleges-worth-200-000-more-than-flagship-state-schools.html

Bwah ha ha ha.

We are in the identical situation as the OP and the chances that the $200,000 tuition savings would go towards a graduation gift condo for the child rather than into our retirement are slim to none! We feel an obligation to help the kids get through college without debt. But beyond that, they are going to be on their own when it comes to buying condos in the city. We still have another younger child yet to go!

@Camasite
OP here. Yes we do have almost identical posts going here, one from each coast. I have been enjoying your thread and I also cross posted to it in hopes of increasing traffic. One diff is you have a year to decide, while we have five more days! Good luck!

Yep, good luck. I think our kid is leaning UW. She has several HS friends for whom it is their top school but no one in her circle is thinking Reed. Arriving at UW with a cadre of friends she already knows would be a plus I think. So there’s that. She also wants to do marching band.

We will try to support her either way. But as parents we do have a lot of subtle influence to push them one way or the other. Especially with this child who is eager to please. The oldest knew exactly what she wanted (or thought she did) and listened to very little of what we told her. This one will likely take our advice, or at least take it very seriously.

Tufts is a great school, but it is not a LAC.
The schools your child turned down because they are too small are the ones that offer those personal relationships as a basic part of the package. At some level, your kid doesn’t really care if that is part of the experience.

I would not pay a whole lot more for something you don’t really value and especially because your child is happy with UMass.

There are ample opportunities for bright students to excel, find their people, and engage in intimate communities at larger schools. UMass in particular provides plenty of access to faculty, TAs, grad students and is a warm and pretty laid back atmosphere. Some may prefer LACs for various reasons but it’s a fallacy that smaller student bodies or class sizes necessarily yield better or deeper dialogue or connections. I’d go with UMass if that’s what feels like a good fit, and I wouldn’t treat it as the lesser of those two choices, just different. Whether Cornell would be better and worth the extra cost depends on fit. Very strong in the sciences, obviously, but probably has more stressed-out students than the other two (much of it self-imposed, but that does influence the culture).

Can you elaborate as to why Cornell seems to have this stigma attached to it of stressed-out students? I keep imagining a Gothic Joyce Carol Oates novel.

Feeling a little depressed myself after no comments on my UMass/Tufts thread by @privatebanker

Hey let me take a look. Thanks for pointing it out. I’ll be back. ?

Ok. I’m caught up now.

International relations is a strength at Tufts.

Natural sciences are a strength at Massachusetts.

The commonwealth honors college is a unique experience within the larger whole. Dormitories, facilities, access to classes, special events and notated on degree and transcript last I heard. It’s a special environment within an overall special environment. I like the broad economic diversity at Massachusetts, lots of scrappy students. It’s a great college town too.

If he likes the pioneer valley as more rustic, he will like Cornell’s location too.

Cornell and Tufts have stellar reputations. If he is considering bolstering his IR career with grad school or law school, which I would recommend, all three would be incredible at preparing him for that opportunity. Massachusetts would give him a war chest towards that goal if you are on board.

The big wild card is cost. If costs were the same and he liked all equally well. You could make the case for tufts in IR and Cornell for the science component.

In the world of economic realism, I would take the Massachusetts opportunity and gladly send in the deposit! Coupled with the fact that he’s most excited by the school is a huge bonus.

If Cornell comes through it would be understandable if he decided to head to NY. I don’t know if I would pay the premium unless you are assured of it having no impact on your life.

We had to make a similar, but not identical, choice for my DD. She got into Michigan, which is a highly ranked public university, and ASU Barrett Honors. She picked Barrett and I’m glad she did. I love my alma mater (Michigan), and if things were equal costwise ($190K difference too), it would be a tougher choice. But the experience you get from the extra attention at an honors college, the first pick of classes, special dorms, and research opportunities make an honors college special.

UMASS Honors has a very good reputation according to publicuniversityhonors.com. I know the school as a whole has really stepped it up in the past few years.

It would be hard for me to justify an extra $192,000 (likely more with the way college inflation works) for my kid to go anywhere else, even Cornell. If he wants to go to UMASS, what would your hesitation be? Think of what you or he could do with that extra money. Fund grad school, a car, a down payment on a house, and 6 months post graduation traveling. Wouldn’t you rather invest it in him directly than a college?

Thanks for you insightful comments. Especially appreciate your positive description of the UMass student body as being economically diverse and scrappy!