<p>Just curious if anybody here knows the facts related to this situation. </p>
<p>My nephew tells me his friend from Pennsylvania–an elem. education major–got an underage drinking charge recently and, if found guilty, will be unable to get certified in the state of PA due to a ‘morality clause’ in that state’s school law. She has always wanted to be a teacher and N believes she’d be a good one, but will have to pay for an attorney to fight the charge but says she’s clearly guilty. I just can’t believe this to be the law as it seems so punitive, but he swears it is! His friend is devastated and doesn’t have $$ to pay for lawyer fees. Seems there should be some leeway for young people who do what SO many of them do. Yet another reason to lower the drinking age, if you ask me.</p>
<p>In NC you hire a lawyer for every traffic ticket (no matter how minor) because the cost of insurance points for 3 years is much more than the cost for a lawyer to stand up in court and say “he’s one of mine”. It’s basically a full employment act for traffic lawyers. Would not surprise me a bit to find out that the same exists in other states around minor stuff and a ‘morality clause’… Always good to remember that the only people who truly loose are the ones who deny how the system works and don’t hire a lawyer… She should just consider the cost of hiring a lawyer part of the penalty…</p>
<p>Guilty or not, she should get a lawyer and try for at least some sort of probation or deferred adjudication where the charge/conviction can be removed from her record. If every person who got an underage drinking citation was barred from teaching (or any other profession), there would be quite a shortage of teachers!</p>
<p>I would definitely recommend your friend hire a lawyer. The reason for this law is because that people don’t want their children being around an alcoholic or someone who they perceive as an alcoholic. Alcohol is a major factor in car accidents, sexual assaults, and even violent crime. While in your friends case it may be that it was just an innocent mistake from a while back, parents have no way of knowing that or knowing that it won’t happen again at an instance where a child’s safety could be in danger. </p>
<p>Your “friend” should hire a lawyer and defend against the charge; there might be a plea agreement to a lesser charge or even a discretionary dismissal sentence (where if your friend completes a probation or some sort of class the charge will be dismissed as if it never happened, which is often used even when the defendant is “clearly guilty” but doesn’t deserve to have her life ruined).</p>
<p>Check this out from Wikipedia at Millersville U:</p>
<p>Also in April 2007, Stacy Snyder, a 27-year old mother of two, filed a $75,000 federal lawsuit against Millersville University alleging that she was denied a teaching certificate and education diploma as a result of a picture on her MySpace page labeled “drunken pirate” in which she is shown drinking out of a yellow Mr. Goodbar cup while wearing a pirate hat.[14] The university claimed that she was promoting “underage drinking,” though she was, in fact, well over the legal drinking age of 21. She was, instead, awarded an English degree.[15] The University denies the allegations but declined to elaborate further, citing federal privacy laws.[16] The courts ruled against Stacy Snyder.[17]</p>
<p>Amazing stuff. Amazing power of Universities</p>
<p>As of April 1, 2007, the following three background checks are required:</p>
<p>Pennsylvania State Police Request for Criminal Records Check (Act 34). Applies to individuals hired as of January 1, 1986.
Department of Public Welfare Child Abuse History Clearance (Act 151)
Federal Criminal History Record Information (CHRI) in a manner prescribed by the Department of Education.</p>
<p>At a time when the number of applicants for any opening is extremely high and the competition is incredibly fierce, an applicant with any blemish will likely be eliminated. If you omit information on your application and it is later discovered that you lied, then you can be dismissed for falsifying your application.</p>
<p>Although the consequences for being foolish are harsh and maybe unjust, I think suing for certification is a waste of time and money. Even if the young person is certified, he or she probably won’t be hired.</p>
<p>This young person should get a lawyer, even if it means humbly asking a friend of a friend who is a lawyer to do pro bono. My husband has represented at least 15 people under the age of 21 in the neighborhood over the last decade with traffic issues or with disciplinary issues in local colleges with no charge and he would likely want to help a college student who was remorseful and willing to do alternatives the court might find acceptable. Also many attorneys are on lists at Legal Aide. This case doesn’t sound half as difficult as cases my spouse takes on pro bone annually. You gotta ask and try before giving up! Go to Legal Aid or ask help of a friend who knows attorney(s).</p>
<p>Sax - part of the issue in the Stacy Snyder case was her lack of judgment and professionalism. Her mistake was in posting the picture on FB and “friending” her students. </p>
<p>In one of my (many) part-time jobs, I train recent graduates who are going to be working in public schools. I tell them to purge FB before they begin work. My standard is - would this posting or picture be okay if it were framed and displayed in the school lobby? How about on Parent’s night?</p>
<p>A neighbor told me that her child who had been an elementary education major had to change majors because he had a DUI a few years ago and then a public intoxication conviction. She said the 2nd offense made him ineligible to become certified to be a teacher in Indiana.</p>
<p>This is so unfortunate and yet very true. My friends son was attending the University of Scranton when they cracked down on drinking this past winter. Her son is a non drinker but attended parties until the police decided to show up at almost every party, and write citations to every kid present. He decided it was too risky and applied for transfer to a school outside of Penn. The laws in Penn are rediculus and in my opinion all parents and students should clearly know the law there before they decide to attend school in that state. He and many other freshman left the school as they saw this police action both severe and bordering on harrassment.</p>
<p>This young lady needs an attorney. I am sure if her parents know what can result from this conviction, they would agree that it is necessary.</p>
<p>Underage drinking CAN have serious consequences as can any other crime…oh it’s a crime to drink if you are underage. Sorry, but it’s risky business…and yes…I do know that many kids drink before they are old enough to do so legally. Count me as one who does NOT think this is too severe a punishment. If you don’t want the risk…do not drink until you are old enough to do so…and don’t get a DUI either…or be convicted of any other crime. This WILL come up in a background check…and has the potential to jeopardize not only teaching jobs but other employment as well.</p>
<p>An attorney would have a very good chance of winning when it comes to misdemeanors like this regardless of the context so that’s something that should definitely be pursued. </p>
<p>And Thumper, there are many contexts where drinking under the age of 21 is legal in most states and making blanket statements like “it’s a crime to drink if you’re underage” is incorrect.</p>
<p>I know of someone who had a similar situation. PA education major, underage drinking charge. They spoke to the judge and had the charges “reduced” to disorderly conduct. No attorney involved. Just the judge/parent/officer. Judge read the riot act to student and said if he ever saw/heard they were in trouble again, they would throw the book at them. No further issues with student, they graduated and have been teaching.</p>
<p>The law in PA is known as constructive possession means that a minor (under 21) found in the presence of alcohol will be charged with underage drinking whether they have been drinking or not.</p>
<p>Some people think this is a great law that will prevent kids from drinking. I grew up when the legal drinking age was 18 and I personally feel that the age limit of 21 is set too high. The only thing a law like this does is drive young people to binge drink or “pre-game” prior to heading out to parties. Does anyone really believe a law like this will stop college students from drinking? The law in PA is nothing short of rediculus and as a parent I would hire an attorney in a heartbeat to fight drinking charge (NOT DUI) for a student that was not drinking at a party that had alcohol. </p>
<p>Parents who have children attending schools in PA need to know how this law could affect their kids and more importantly every kid attending school in PA better know they are not playing when it comes time to write those citations and collect their fees. The kids can see their dreams of careers get wiped out just from having a single beer or attending a party where alcohol is present.</p>
<p>“If I am an education major and get charged with UAD, does that mean I will never be able to teach in Pennsylvania? According to the Pennsylvania Crimes Code (Section 9124), neither summary offenses nor expungements can be used in consideration of acceptance or denial of a state license or certificate. Therefore, you will still be eligible for teaching status in this state. While it is not legal for the state to deny a teaching certificate because of a summary offense, it is legal for a school district to deny employment based on past citations of any kind. Even though a UAD will not appear on a background check, it does remain on record with the University and/or the police and can be accessed by any school district that chooses to search for the information.”</p>
<p>Purplepond…just for clarification…I was talking about underage drinking in the context of the OPs post…not giving YOUR kid a glass of wine in your house. </p>
<p>I just want to go on the record as saying…there is a growing concern over drinking…not just for underage drinkers but for adults as well. Where I am…there are actually companies that have rehab services within their company as a way to help these otherwise productive folks get back on the right track.</p>
<p>I think it’s a sad commentary when we try to justify something that can have ill effects on folks either because of the legal aspects or health concerns.</p>
<p>And yes…I know that NOT everyone who drinks does so in excess.</p>
<p>Sax - good quote. I was trying to find published lit from another state university, but couldn’t find what I needed.</p>
<p>Once again, the merits of the law is a different subject. What I know, is that at a time when districts are receiving upwards of 50 apps for an opening, they are looking for ways to winnow the pool to a manageable number and make a selection. DH received over 60 apps for a professional position that pays half of what a starting teacher makes. </p>
<p>As to whether we should lower the drinking age to 18, that puts the legal age to drink in the class of seniors, thereby making it much easier for sophs and juniors in high school to be friendly with someone who can buy drinks for them.</p>