<p>Of course, the name of your degree will follow you the rest of your life. Do you really want your future acquaintances to mistake your “prestigious” Rice degree for some certification at an agricultural school?</p>
<p>Uh huh…</p>
<p>Since you don’t know much about Rice, obviously no one does, especially the ones that matter.</p>
<p>ring<em>of</em>fire, first of all, it is merely in your opinion that Duke is a solid top 10 uiniversity. There are 8 Ivy League universities, MIT, Stanford, Chicago, Caltech, Cal, Michigan, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern and Duke, all fighting for top 10 honors. I am really baffled at how you can conclude that Duke is a “solid” top 10 university. </p>
<p>I personally think schools like Cal, Chicago, Columbia, Cornell, Michigan and Penn make a stronger case for top 10 distinction than Duke. Your opinion is valid, as is mine. The truth probably lies somewhere in between. </p>
<p>Admittedly, Rice is smaller and not as well rounded academically as some of those schools, but it is still considered a top 20 university. By definition, a top definite top 20 university IS in “the same league” as arguable top 10 university. As such, I still don’t understand how you can claim that Rise is “not in the same league” as Cornell, Duke, NU and WUSTL. As a Cornell alum, I would be proud to have Cornell compared to Rice. </p>
<p>Secondly, Duke’s reputation as an elite ACADEMIC insitution is also regional (South and Northeast). All universities save Harvard and perhaps MIT, Princeton, Stanford and Yale have regional reputations. That is why I stated, very clearly, that among the “educated elite” (i.e., people who actually know about universities beyond their little neck of the woods), your opinion is in the minority.</p>
<p>@ ring<em>of</em> fire:</p>
<p>The OP also said: “Oh, and if you can think of any other schools that would have strong undergraduate programs in both areas, please list them.”</p>
<p>So, the OP was also taking recommendations for other undergrad BME programs, and I felt that Rice would be a good recommendation for him. What is wrong with being spirited about my future college? It shows I am excited to go there; I’m not spreading “propaganda.” I support almost all the assertions I make.</p>
<p>Additionally, you argue that “It is virtually UNHEARD of outside of Texas and most employers are unaware of the existence of the school.” Well, I live in Ohio, and although it is not the most known or popular school in the area, the educated people have heard of it. My guidance counselors, my former supervisor at work, and my open-minded, intelligent peers have heard of it. I was surprised by the number of my classmates and friends who heard about Rice; more people knew about it than I thought would. Almost all of my family friends in Ohio have heard of Rice, and they know it is a great, tough school. Some even believe that it is a better school than Duke 
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<p>My private guidance counselor, who has been counseling students for 40 years and who grew up in Oklahoma, persuaded me that it was just as good of a school as Duke in terms of academics, quality of life, and caliber of student body.</p>
<p>Duke has its prestige mainly because of its basketball team and med school… the main reason why many people in the Cincinnati area have heard of Duke is because of its basketball team.</p>
<p>I’m not a prestige whore. I proudly turned down Duke, WashU, Emory, Northwestern, Pomona, Ohio State, MiamiU-Ohio, Case Western, and University of Cincinnati for Rice. Many of my Rice '13 classmates have turned down Duke, WashU, Northwestern, Cornell, Emory, and Johns Hopkins for Rice as well. In no way does this mean Rice is better than these schools since I bet there are students at these other schools who turned down Rice as well, but it at least means that Rice is on the same level as Duke, WashU, Cornell, etc.</p>
<p>Oh, and for your knowledge, WashU and Northwestern, along with Emory and Vanderbilt, are somewhat regional schools too. These are all great schools, so who cares if they are not known in every single part of the U.S.? WashU is not very well known outside of the Midwest and East Coast region. Emory is mainly well known in the South and in the NY region; I was surprised to learn that a lot of my friends have not heard of Emory in Ohio. Anyway, my point is that there are many excellent colleges that tend to be somewhat regional; it does not mean that they are inferior to HYPSM. All of these “regional” schools are gaining national recognition anyway; they are all striving to be the best.</p>
<p>Anyway man, chill out. The purpose of this forum is to give recommendations and advice to people who are about to apply to college, and that was merely what I was doing. As I stated earlier, I am only giving a recommendation to the OP that he could choose to follow or not.</p>
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<p>Let me guess… you’re not a fan of Colgate University.</p>
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<p>Then you’ve ever seen acceptance rates into the top 25 medical schools… It’s uber suber tuber fiercely competitive…</p>
<p><a href=“http://web.mit.edu/career/www/preprof/top25medschools.pdf[/url]”>http://web.mit.edu/career/www/preprof/top25medschools.pdf</a> (Admissions into Harvard/Hopkins Med is 5 times harder than admissions into MIT!!)</p>
<p>Getting into any medical school is fine. Medical school admissions is uber tuber tough. It’s getting in that is the hard part 
Going to a premed school like Hopkins which has one of the top 3 premed advising committees in the nation helps in the greater scheme of things. It’s going to be “uber rigorous” everywhere. Rigor and competition is the name of the game in terms of medical school admissions. </p>
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<p>Yeah, maybe your school doesn’t have the resources to offer a BME program. :eek: Ever considered that as a thought? I’m only saying because it’s expensive to operate a BME department. Hard to do with finite resources to draw a stellar set of faculty members from separate departments in the University.</p>
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<p>Well, it’s a top 10 Engineering school, and it offers graduate degrees in BME.</p>
<p>So… not really.</p>
<p>You know one thing I just realized? We both need get off this site and get girlfriends!.. </p>
<p>This is so sad :(</p>
<p>Does the fact that OSU’s BME major is not even accredited by the ABET make a degree in that field from that university entirely worthless?</p>
<p>
Alex, USNWR has never ranked Duke outside the top 10 in the past decade at least. It’s ranking has hovered around #3 and #8 during this period. No other schools besides HYPSM, Penn, Columbia, Caltech and Dartmouth can make the same claim. These, along with Duke, are the top 10 schools in the country.</p>
<p>Rice is a solid, top 25 university alongside all the other schools you mentioned, which means it is extremely good. My problem with it is its lackluster name recognition. Most educated people have not heard about the school</p>
<p>I applied to 5 Ivies, Duke, Stanford and Chicago. I was unaware that Rice EVEN EXISTED until my first year at Duke and I attended a good public high school in Michigan, so it’s not like i’m clueless about this stuff.</p>
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<p>Your “good public high school” is lacking in adequate college counseling, then.</p>
<p>I had had, and still have, no interest in any sort of engineering, yet reading about Rice at the time piqued my interest. I attended all of their information sessions, and spoke one-on-one with a number of its admissions staff. It’s a superior university.</p>
<p>Anyone who has been through the college admissions process will have heard of Rice. Of all the schools you’ve named, Duke does not stand out as a prestigious school in my mind. Though, it certainly has name recognition.</p>
<p>ring<em>of</em>fire, I was not referring to the USNWR, I was referring to the reality on the ground. I (and many like me), do not believe that Duke is a “solid” top 10 university. As far as I am concerned, that honor goes to the Big 5, Cal and Columbia. </p>
<p>I certainly agree that Duke makes a very strong case for top 10 consideration, but like I said, so do all 8 Ivy League universities, Cal, Caltech, Chicago, Johns Hopkins, MIT, Northwestern and Stanford (I am deliberately leaving Michigan out of the equation so that nobody accuses me of being biased). Of those 15 universities, I find it hard to believe that Duke is clearly better than 5 to make it a “solid” top 10 university. </p>
<p>As for Rice, I would not brag about not knowing it. Even in the UAE, the educated elite know about it. It is a top 20 university, and like I said, a top 20 university IS in the same league as a top 10 university.</p>
<p>Even my inept HS counselor knew about Rice. Tschh.</p>
<p>ring<em>of</em>fire does bring up a good point. Rice doesn’t have the same kind of recognition in the general public as other schools. However this doesn’t translate to a lack of recognition in academia/the professional world.</p>
<p>Whoever said that Texas A&M is more highly regarded in the South than Rice must be a tad deranged… TAMU is a perfectly acceptable state school, but is far below UT-Austin, which is farther still behind Rice. The former two are good schools, but Rice is a GREAT school (I almost attended UT and was simply waitlisted to Rice, so no bias whatsoever).</p>
<p>Honestly, before coming on CC, I can’t remember hearing anything about JHU, Northwestern, or Chicago; very little about Cal (and that’s just because this girl at my school went there); and I discovered, and consequently thoroughly researched, CalTech only after my choice to major in engineering.
Yet again reinforcing that name recognition simply cannot ever equal prestige, especially in academia.</p>
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<p>Yes, that’s right. High schoolers are the <em>ultimate</em> determiners of prestige. </p>
<p>BTW, of all the schools whose students and alumni are represented on CC, there is only one school where I now think more poorly of it based on how their students portray themselves. And that’s Duke. The arrogance and school pride combined with bashing others is over the top.</p>
<p>@ ring<em>of</em>fire: </p>
<p>You cannot simply say that “most educated people have not heard about the school.” First of all, you have nothing of substance to back that statement up. If you are going to make that claim, organize a scientific survey and post your results. </p>
<p>Anyway, I have discovered the contrary: that educated people have heard of Rice and realize it is an amazing school. In fact, one of my family friends, who is a professor at Miami University, visited today and was describing how it was the excellent university. He even stated that it is the best university in the South.</p>
<p>Another case in point: the father of a daughter my private college counselor is counseling was telling the counselor that he heard of Rice in India. </p>
<p>One of my grandparents’ friends was saying that he knows of students who turned down Harvard, Yale, and Stanford to attend Rice, and he holds the university in high regard.</p>
<p>A relative of mine that lives in Chapel Hill, which is about 15-20 minutes from Duke, has heard of Rice and also said it is a distinguished university.</p>
<p>Finally, my former supervisor, who is a graduate of Columbia University, was very impressed that I was admitted and was going to Rice… she was saying it was a very great school.</p>
<p>I don’t know what is up with your high school’s lack of knowledge about Rice… Like you, I proudly graduated from one of the top public high schools in the nation (ranked #48 in U.S. News and World Report in 2007), and all four of the counselors have heard of Rice and hold it in high regard. One of my counselors met with Rice admissions representatives and visited the campus in May. And my high school is in Ohio, which is not that far from Michigan.</p>
<p>Now, ring<em>of</em>fire, I agree with you that the average American has probably not heard of Rice. But consider this: the typical Joes think that University of Pennsylvania, an esteemed Ivy, is Penn State. They can’t name all the Ivies and don’t know how excellent Dartmouth and Brown is. They think Stanford is an Ivy. So, just because they have not heard of the school, does not mean the school is inferior to HYPSM. </p>
<p>I also agree that you that Rice does not hold the same prestige as HYPSM or even Duke, but in my opinion, most of Duke’s prestige comes from its basketball team. I first heard of Duke in second grade, and that is because they won the NCAA basketball tournament. Ever since then up until high school, I always viewed it as a jock school. I was very surprised to find out in 9th grade that they were ranked sixth in USNWR, and I then started to respect Duke more and hence applied there. Duke is an excellent academic school, don’t get me wrong, but most of its prestige and national recognition comes from Coach K’s success with the men’s basketball team.</p>
<p>And, in my opinion, Americans who are intelligent, educated, and hold college education in high regard know and greatly respect Rice University. All these anecdotes I told you happened to me in one week… and this is all in Ohio, which is very far from Texas. Almost everyone that I have encountered who is educated, intelligent (some people can be educated and not intelligent), and hold college education in high regard know about Rice … sure there are exceptions, but I think those are in the minority. Now, I can’t 100 percent prove to you that most educated people know about Rice since all this evidence is anecdotal and is only pertinent to me, but this should at least shed some light to you that the intelligent, educated American knows about Rice.</p>
<p>@OP:</p>
<p>I apologize for sidetracking this conversation… I just needed to clear some misconceptions that ring<em>of</em>fire had about Rice. Please do not let these conversations prevent you from applying to Rice or Duke… they are both excellent universities and will fulfill your academic needs.</p>
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<p>Rice is indeed an excellent school…but UT-Austin is by no means “farther still behind Rice”, especially considering that nearly EVERY academic program at UT is ranked higher than Rice.</p>
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What makes a school prestigious in your opinion? There’s not a single criteria that Duke doesn’t meet. Unless you only believe HYPSM are prestigious schools, then you are a clearly showing off your bias.</p>
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Alex, what makes you so sure the USNWR differs from the “reality on the ground”? UNSWR is considered by most informed and uninformed people to be the foremost expert on ranking American’s colleges and universities. I understand you are not a fan of it because Michigan can never crack the top 20(this year 25), but you are clearly in the minority on the matter. Cal is not a top 10 university. With regards to strength of graduate programs, it is top 3 school without doubt. For undergrads, it is a fringe top 25 institution at best.</p>
<p>Duke is clearly better than Brown, Cornell, Cal, John Hopkins and Northwestern.</p>
<p>The remaining 6 Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Duke and Chicago are the top 10 undergraduate institutions without a doubt. The only school I feel bad about omitting is Northwestern, but I think Chicago is definitely a slightly better undergraduate institution.</p>
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Uh, employers aren’t that much more knowledgeable about schools than the general public. I agree with you that professional schools are though. All I’m saying is that a Rice grad would have trouble finding a job if he/she left Texas. No one in the Midwest for instance would consider a Rice degree to be on par with a Notre Dame or Michigan degree. No one in the West would consider a Rice to be on par with a Cal, Stanford, UCLA or USC degree. In the East Coast, it probably wouldn’t even make a list of the top 50 schools.</p>
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The Gallup poll proves you to be wrong.
[Harvard</a> Number One University in Eyes of Public](<a href=“Harvard Number One University in Eyes of Public”>Harvard Number One University in Eyes of Public)
South</p>
<p>Harvard</p>
<p>18</p>
<p>Yale</p>
<p>10</p>
<p>Stanford</p>
<p>9</p>
<p>Duke</p>
<p>7</p>
<p>Texas A & M</p>
<p>7</p>
<p>Rice isn’t even prestigious in the South outside Texas.</p>
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Um well, that’s the demographic that universities are generally trying to attract. Harvard wouldn’t be Harvard if the top students in the world didn’t go there.</p>
<p>I’m not sure what you were going for with that Duke jab right there. You would think “high-level” management consultants would be above this sort of childish nonsense. but I guess not.</p>
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That’s exactly what the Gallup Poll shows. Whoever said knowing the reputations of universities in the US was a prerequisite to being educated? Rice is a fantastic top 20 university. You should be proud to go there and you’ll have a great undergraduate experience without a doubt.</p>
<p>Oh, the Duke jab is merely this:</p>
<p>It seems that most other grads of top 20 universities are more than happy to say that all of the top 20 universities offer great educations, and that while some have specialties that others don’t, and while the environment / culture at each may be different, that you generally can’t go wrong with any of them. They don’t have a need to try to elevate their own university above any other; they have their own personal preference and pride, but hey, it’s all good.</p>
<p>The Duke people (Dookies? whatever) have a tendency to rank everything in a really finite way, as if there were any kinds of major differences between being (say) #8 and #11 or whatever, they seem really overly impressed with their own prestige, and they seem really anxious for everyone to bow down to their grand Duke-ness. It’s just really odd. Really, <em>Rice</em> isn’t the place that looks worse when you’re so very anxious to point out that not every single person in the US has heard of it. It just makes <em>you</em> look small and ungracious.</p>