<p>I don’t a tend a school that requires a uniform, but I did for elementary school. I went there because the school I districted to wasn’t very good, and the private school was better. However, the uniforms could only be bought from the school outfitter (ok, one other sold them, but they did tag checks to see where you bought them.) The uniforms were very expensive, even the kaki pants couldn’t be bought at target, they had to have the school logo. Then, when I switched to public school after we moved, I’d never gone to school not wearing plaid or a white blouse, my first few days were humiliating. We needed to go out and buy things that weren’t kaki, hunter green, plaid, or something I could wear to church. Essentially, uniforms don’t lead to practicality in dress outside of school.</p>
<p>As for the teasing and increased academics, we were graded on obeying the uniform, we were pulled out for skirt checks, and those of us with less money tended to have over or undersized uniforms as our parents would buy them to fit for a few years. I don’t think I had a real friend in elementary school because of the teasing from my classmates, and then the neighbourhood kids about my wearing a uniform for school. Uniforms don’t equalise, they make no difference.</p>
<p>I said this before, but I think and important point is that uniforms do not stifle expression or create an atmosphere of conformity. In fact, they do the opposite. Why?
With normal street clothes, there is pressure (social pressure) to dress with the newest styles, with what is “cool” or “popular” or “sexy.” And clothing becomes yet another factor that differentiates and segregates different social groups.</p>
<p>In this sense, uniforms can - paradoxically enough - reduce conformist pressure.</p>
<p>That is way, way, WAY over-hyped in my experience. Sure, some feel this way. The majority of people I’ve met do not really. Out of the 6000+ people at my high school, I never met a single one that legitimately cared about the brand of your jeans. I went to a high school that had students ranging from those in subsidized housing to the children of NHL players. </p>
<p>I’d still rather take the social pressure than the forced clothes. I hated looking the same way day after day after day. It was so freaking tedious. 9 years, same outfit. And my uniform consisted of ONE allowable skort (skirt later on), and the “choice” of a white button down blouse or a white button down blouse. The only option you had was red sweater or no sweater. Yippie skippie.</p>
<p>Oh and the few times that my skirt was left in the wash because my mom was too tired and forgot to put it in the dryer, I couldn’t go to school. In barrons’ eyes, that makes me hopeless ;)</p>
<p>Terenc, it depends on the school. Perhaps that was your experience, but for my kids in their schools and for me in mine, the social groups mixed, and you were given more status if you expressed your personality, than if you conformed.</p>
<p>@romanig: I’m not saying people will judge you by the brand of your jeans. No, they probably won’t. But they will judge you by the “way” you dress, and the “type” of clothes you wear.
When I say “social pressure” I’m not saying it’s like an active societal force. It’s a subtle form of self-imposed segregation that sort of delineates different social groups.</p>
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Eh… I doubt this. If you conform to how other people dress, those people will “like” you better (due to similar appearance). If you don’t dress similarly to someone else; in fact, if you dress completely different from them, you will appear a little off-putting to them.</p>
<p>And the irony in that statement is that if “expressing your personality” for a high schooler means going to the mall and purchasing a certain style of clothes, this supposed “expression of personality” is entirely superficial, and you are not really expressing your personality, you are essentially conforming to everyone else’s expectations.</p>
<p>It’s sort of analogous to “dressing like a hipster” - some people will dress in that style in order to show how they identify with that subculture, but in doing so they are essentially conforming to not only that subculture, but the idea that appearances define your personality.</p>
<p>Apparently you didn’t read up thread, when I pointed out that the students at this school didn’t hangout at the mall ( it is the same inner city high school Jimi Hendrix & Quincy Jones attended), but took " vintage" clothing & restyled them using construction techniques.</p>
<p>ter, I understand what you said. I disagree strongly with you.</p>
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<p>So what you wear, what you CHOOSE to buy, is not a reflection of your personality? Methinks you’re reading way too much in to society and blah blah blah. The “everything is superficial” and “conforming” angles are so played out. Sometimes, you just do things because you darn well want to do them.</p>
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<p>Or <em>gasp</em> that’s just what you like to wear.</p>
<p>My D expresses her personality just fine without having to write on her jeans or have pink hair or whatever is counter-culture these days. Her hair is unique to her, her jewelry can be changed and because the uniform allows ANY khaki skirt or pants and ANY navy skirt or pants, she doesn’t look the same two days in a row. It’s more than enough “expression”, she looks presentable and her clothes don’t look like she got dressed with her eyes shut. I couldn’t have been more against uniforms before I found myself with kids wearing them-it’s not much of an issue when there’s plenty of latitude.</p>
<p>^ Why does “expressing your personality” have to be counterculture? The wonderful thing about not having a uniform policy is that if your personality is one that likes khakis and such, you can wear them! However, if you don’t, you don’t have to! It’s wonderful to those of us who want to wear jeans.</p>
<p>roman, emeraldkitty talked about her kids not conforming. And EK, aren’t you being a bit dishonest implying that it’s poor “inner city” kids who are deconstructing “vintage” clothes, when the school actually has two populations-one of low-income minority kids who can’t AFFORD the mall, and the other of young hipsters who shop at Goodwill down the street to look cool by dressing like non-conformists? It’s hardly a homogenous population. Some of those “rebels” come from VERY wealthy families,</p>
<p>Wellspring, what I want is for people who oppose uniforms to admit that some of us don’t see them as the end of the world for our kids, that they aren’t being tortured or humiliated and get to express themselves just fine. I am not a proponent of the expensive, ugly, one-brand-only private school types, but a general color and fabric type is cheaper and easier for almost everyone. And to go back to the original post-the school in question isn’t even open yet and parents ARE being included in the process. The whole thing is a non-starter.</p>
<p>I don’t think ANYONE has said anything to the contrary. But for those of us who DON’T want uniforms or who DON’T want our children to be sent to schools with uniforms should have that option in a public school. You can always choose to wear a uniform type outfit without uniform policy. You can’t wear jeans, if that’s what you like, with a uniform policy.</p>
<p>Well, I don’t know. Comments about having to stay home from school if your uniform isn’t all there is kind of, well, dramatic, “end of the world” kind of talk.</p>
<p>Ssea, if I had gone to school without my uniform, I would have been sent home anyway. Nothing dramatic about it. It’s how the private school worked.</p>
<p>I didn’t say the kids were rebels, what are they rebelling against?
I also don’t see the school as being that disparate. My daughter was on sports teams all year for her four years there, that drew kids from every segment of the school and she had friends from the population that was in the internationally acclaimed orchestra and in the population that was taking remedial classes.
Incidentally she didn’t play an instrument and she did take remedial classes.
;)</p>
<p>In my experience, kids who go out of their way to look different are trying to rebel against the norm, whatever they think it is. </p>
<p>But I’m glad to hear that your daughter managed to bridge the gap between groups. I’ve known minority families who have all felt that there is a pretty wide divide, especially when it comes to minority kids in the advanced classes. And my older D competed against your school as a swimmer and was always amazed at how the kids from the different groups never sat together, even as they cheered on the same team. </p>
<p>When we were going to end up at WA Middle, we specifically asked about that problem and the counselors, teachers and principal all told us basically, “that is the way it is,” so we opted to go elsewhere. By then we’d had enough of our younger D being marginalized. But that’s another topic.</p>
<p>I think you underestimate the power of the drive to conform. We are social beings. Much of what we do is driven by the need to group with other people and form communities. For that reason, people are surprisingly and incredibly susceptible to 1) the influence imposed by what others are doing and 2) society’s shared value of appearance over substance.</p>
<p>When someone buys something, the idea that you are 100% by yourself choosing that item is patently false - something that advertising executives realized long ago on their way to building a $500 billion industry.
In fact, advertising preys on the very belief that you mention - advertising tells you that if you buy X product, you will be buying into the lifestyle - in essence, that by buying a product you are displaying your true personality - the personality that has been sold to you. Thus, we have the association in advertising between masculine behavior and beer - by buying and drinking X brand of beer, advertising is telling you that you will be reflecting your own masculine personality - never mind that that very association in your mind was influenced by the advertising.</p>
<p>Now, that was just an example of how choice is not entirely “choice.” Advertising is not the same as “what everyone else is wearing.” But they are very similar. And the core idea behind the analogy is the same idea behind what I am trying to say.</p>
<p>My two daughter’s schools have a dress code but not uniforms. I really don’t think uniforms are necessary, but if you choose to send your child to a private school with a uniform policy,that’s your choice.</p>
<p>My dress code for my girls is probably a little more conservative then the schools, but there’s never been a problem. When we go to the mall, the girls know how much they have to spend and what is acceptable. They don’t have to ask, they know what I’ll buy or they can buy and generally we agree on what is asked for.</p>
<p>Before one of my daughters had a growth spurt and became tall and thin, she was sort of shaped funny, sort of like a bowling ball! I can’t see any uniform being flattering. We searched long and hard for clothes that worked for her, and no we didn’t spend a fortune. She was about 11 at that point and would have hated wearing the same clothes everyone else did but that looked funny on her. </p>
<p>And I don’t necessarily agree with “dress for success”. I think success comes from within at any age, not from your clothes. And from encouragement.</p>
<p>Finally, our public high school takes in a lot of people that went to private and Catholic school for middle and elementary school. I’m Catholic and am not putting down Catholics, but it seems when they were “set free” from their uniform obligations, many of the kids violated the dress code and were sent home because they went from one extreme to the other, many times bypassing parents by changing into skimpy outfits at school. It was like they didn’t realize there was a middle ground! They probably just wanted to fit in and weren’t sure what to wear, but the kids that hadn’t grown up with uniforms knew what wasn’t acceptable and dressed accordingly.</p>
<p>i am happyt to learn that an issue of clothes is absolutely the only one in k -12, Yeye, finally all issues are resolved and the biggest challenge is to clothe them properly and they will be ready to face the world after graduation. Great!</p>