<p>I see someone watched MadMen.
;)</p>
<p>@Redeye41 - my two sons were in a Catholic elementary/middle school. I remember dropping off S1for the first day of his freshman year in public HS and feeling sorry for him, going from a setting where the girls wore khakis and polo shirts to one where anything went (there was a rudimentary dress code, but it wasn’t really enforced.) When he was “set free” he became “that freshman who wears the college hoodie all the time.” It was from the university he attends now and he wore it pretty much every day.</p>
<p>emerald,
What is MadMen? Are you referring to TV show?</p>
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<p>This is something I have been thinking about. I had a hard time in the middle school years because I am proportioned in a pretty funky way, and I had to buy VERY specific clothes in order to not look completely ridiculous. In our case, if our school had switched to uniforms and the uniforms hadn’t worked for me, my parents might have had to switch my school in order to get me to go-- I’d have been in tears every morning. I feel like what is chosen for the uniform seems to work for most kids, even if some people think it’s inconvenient, so I have a hard time using my anecdotal experience to object to uniforms in public schools-- but it would have personally been pretty horrible if we’d had to yank me out of the local public school over something like that. </p>
<p>Our schools always did have pretty strict dress codes, though, even without uniforms. No short shorts, no sleeveless shirts or exposed shoulders, no low necklines, etc. Our high school even banned skinny jeans for a while, but I think they backed off that. Leggings as pants may still not be allowed, our family doesn’t have any kids there anymore so I am not up to date. But it wasn’t that big of a deal. If we lived in a neighborhood where we had to worry about people wearing gang colors to school I might be more concerned, but we don’t.</p>
<p>Ema, the leggings thing was banned my junior year.</p>
<p>I don’t remember the skinny jeans ban. I would have failed that one lol.</p>
<p>That would have been a year or two ago, my sister was class of 2011 and it was while she was in school. My mom was enraged, because we had to buy all these extra jeans that she’d never wear anywhere else-- not entirely unlike a uniform! They either lifted that ban or they didn’t enforce it, because I know she did end up going back to her old jeans and she never got in trouble for violating the dress code… everything else under the sun, yes, but her clothes were apparently acceptable. lol.</p>
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<p>Hmmm, perhaps it is similar to how people in countries that have long been ruled by authoritarian governments which were removed do not always manage to put together a functioning free civil society.</p>
<p>Barrons, yes, there are families that are that challenged. Just one more thing to do is a tipping point. </p>
<p>Funny how the public schools are thinking going this route just as many of the top privates are loosening up on the dress codes now. My kids spanned the transition era. The school that required coat and tie is now on dress code, and are loosening up on the lower school uniforms. </p>
<p>What a pain putting strict dress codes into place too. Gotta state that the girls’s blouses are opaque with no nipple bumps, and that that no logo tee shirts are permitted. Even then these kids find ways to make the administration crazy. I saw one kid in coat in tie that made him look like a clown. Gotta address fit, not too baggy, no torn hems, not too tight, no skin showing between pants and top, Yiiii.</p>
<p>Ema . . . , I think many schools solve that problem by choosing uniforms that don’t look attractive on anyone. For us, the uniform is a loose fitting Tshirt, plus khakis. It’s plain and boring, the kids don’t look bad but you’d never stop and think “wow, that kid looks fine in that Tshirt”. </p>
<p>There’s a very expensive girl’s school near us. As far as I can tell from talking to friends whose kids go there the uniform has an option of attractive slacks, or a kilt. They can supplement it with sweats with the school logo. No one ever wears the slacks. In the winter, they all wear the kilts with sweatpants underneath. Honestly, it looks ridiculous, like toddlers wearing tutus with their snowsuits, but I guess one advantage is that no girl can blame the fact they look ridiculous on their body – I mean who looks good in bulky sweatpants with a mini skirt on top?</p>
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<p>I doubt the girls that attend a really excellent all girl private school that has a uniform think they “look ridiculous” or care about what anybody else thinks about this.</p>
<p>Lyda Hill (The Hockaday School of Dallas Class of 1960) recently donated $20 million to the school to construct the building for their STEM program, endow the maintenance of it and to endow salary enhancement for the teachers. She attended MIT after graduating when MIT had 50 females.</p>
<p>Not bad for being “deprived” due to having to wear a uniform. Other “deprived” graduates have become US Ambassadors, etc. Check it out online.</p>
<p>Who said wearing a uniform is being “deprived?” There seem to be two kinds of people on this thread-- Pro Uniform and Pro Choice.</p>
<p>This is a very interesting thread, and obviously there are passionate feelings on both sides of the issue. I haven’t seen but one or two posts from a teacher, but if you were in my shoes as a high school teacher, you’d probably be pro uniform. Yes we have a dress code, but having to focus daily on enforcing this takes away from our purpose - education. Right now, the trend is for girls to wear butt hugging tube skirts and 6 inch heels - something appropriate for going to a club, not for taking notes. This does beat the style about 6 years ago of ultra low rise jeans and shirts that just came to the top. When girls sat down, we all had to see their thong sticking out, or unfortunatley, often their butt crack. My older D was a high schooler during that time, so I had to battle this at home too. And guys - the trend for the 15 years I have been teaching - is to “bust a sag”, or wear pants that fall below your butt cheeks so that we can all see your boxers. It is so ridiculous to see guys running to class holding their pants by the crotch because if they don’t, their pants will fall down. I do think students need to dress for being a student. There are other places in their life that are approriate for more social dress. I also think it does make a difference in how you feel. I had a student a couple of years ago who dressed in business attire for all her IB exams. I asked her why she was so dressed up and she said the exams were important, so her dress should reflect the importance of the task. </p>
<p>As a teacher, I would be glad to join my students in wearing uniforms. Before teaching, I worked in healthcare, and I loved wearing scrubs everyday. It made getting ready in the morning a snap, and what mattered was how good I was at my job, not what I wore. The same should be true for students.</p>
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<p>I think you and I are on the same side. My point was in response to people who feel that uniforms are unfair because students may not look “attractive”. My point is that uniforms aren’t always designed with the goal of making students look attractive, and that is some ways it’s freeing to not have to think about being attractive all the time.</p>
<p>I suspect that the girls do know they look ridiculous. They’re bright girls, and I’m sure they have mirrors at home. I also think they don’t care, which is refreshing when you think about how much other teens think about clothing and their bodies.</p>
<p>When I taught First Grade in an urban public charter K-8 school, 99.5% African American, trying hard to bring up achievement and attendance, the parents were adamant that uniforms would help.</p>
<p>Because poverty was of issue, the “uniform” was this simple: black pants WITH A BELT, white collared shirt with no writing. Girls had the option of black skirts and tights, but most chose pants. </p>
<p>Fridays, the teachers were also required to wear black-and-white. The boy students had the additional requirement of a necktie or bowtie on Fridays. I kept a collection of my H’s to share, since this was the hardest part for families to remember.</p>
<p>No sneakers! These caused the most fights at the Middle School level in other neighborhood schools, I was told. Rather, at this school, it must be leather-sole shoes. Sneakers were brought in bookbags, to change for gym, only.</p>
<p>The only jewelry allowed was smallish earrings, for girls or boys. Nothing facial. </p>
<p>Whenever a newspaper reporter came to the school – which was often – the uniforms got a comment.</p>
<p>My opinion as teacher: first I respected that the parent community had a strong feeling this would help, and their opinion mattered the most. Most of the rules addressed Middle School issues (gangs, etc.) and were implemented up and down the grades from K-8 just for solidarity. This, too, made sense because families come in sibling groups. </p>
<p>My only issue was that the little 5 and 6 year olds needed 15 minutes to get in and out of sneakers for gym; I could have used those precious minutes to work on reading fundamentals instead. ETA: Also I hated the times when my teacher aide sent non-uniformed students to the principal’s office, because they missed another 15 minutes over it. I would look the other way when a uniform wasn’t correct, but she was also a school parent who believed fiercely in this aspect of the school.</p>
<p>Okay…so uniforms represent one of two things:</p>
<ol>
<li> Entitled (usually female) students in exclusive private schools - a population which proudly wears their badge of uniformity.
or</li>
<li>Gang, violence, trouble abatement enforcement in ‘lower class inner city schools’ - whose parents hope they just survive childhood.</li>
</ol>
<p>Conclusion…no uniforms for the great unwashed middle class because somehow they have the deep seated need to show individuality and would will feel wrongly associated with - see option 1 and 2 above - if they donned a uniform.</p>
<p>Got it…</p>
<p>The most expensive schools here in the NYC area have moved away from the uniforms and coat/tie requirements. The most prestigious Catholic school in the city does not require coat and tie any more.</p>
<p>I think they are great. Wearing a uniform signals to the kids from a young age that they are putting on their uniform to go to school like a job. School is a kid’s job. It cuts down n a lot of hassles at school and really does make a difference with respect to peer pressure.</p>
<p>It makes getting kids dressed and out of the house in the morning easy as they have limited options from which to choose. They look professional and this makes it easier to appropriately dress them for church, recitals, etc. It also helps reduce judging based n appearances.</p>
<p>When m D was in 5th grade she started playing sports with some kids who did not wear uniforms. There was so much drama with the other girls over what they wore to practice. I was so grateful that we were insulated from that.</p>
<p>Additionally, much of the clothing for young girls that is inexpensive is also kind of promiscuous at least for the age of the kid. Again, I was glad we had uniforms so I did not have to purchase that garbage for my daughter.</p>
<p>She changed after school when she went to ride horses or play sports.</p>
<p>It really does make life easier in school especially when you see what a lot of kids are allowed to wear to school. It really does reduce distractions.</p>
<p>Our code allowed khaki pants or shorts plus polo shirts with no logo. They could also wear Oxford shirts, cardigans and sweater versts. The girls had some plaid or solid skirts or skirts they could wear. They were glad when they could choose what ot wear in high school, but their choices by then were much more tasteful than many of their counterparts. Also my kids could wear sneakers so the changing for PE issue was non existent for us.</p>
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<p>Somehow I find it hard to believe that it would be easier to resist peer pressure simply based on the clothes you’re wearing.</p>
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<p>Again, if kids are determined to judge based on appearances, they will. At my school it was handbags, shoes, labels, etc.</p>
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<p>Funny. I’ve worked plenty of jobs. Not a single one ever required a uniform.</p>
<p>Just curious, how long does it take people to get dressed? It usually takes me no longer than 2 minutes to decide what to wear and then put on my clothes. In fact, once my high school got uniforms, it took me longer to get dressed in the morning because I had more pieces and buttons to take care of.</p>