I have read about AMEP (applied math engineering and physics) at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, but it seems like it might be a little too challenging for me. I am a junior in high school so I have not taken my ACT or SAT, but I will be in AP Calculus next year and plan on taking AP Physics as well. I would like a degree that I can focus heavily on math and physics, but if there were also engineering aspects that would be even better. Does anyone know of any universities that have degrees like this? I am also considering double majoring in Applied Math and Engineering Physics so if anyone has done either of these things your feedback would be appreciated. Thanks!!
You could research physics and EE doubles. There is quite a bit of overlap.
If the issue is whether you would be able to and indeed encouraged to take a “great” deal of math (both applied and theoeritical) on your way to a physics degree then you can do that in universities with a deep physics program, whether you double major or not. The situation is analogous if you were to major in engineering (e.g. mechanical, electrical, aeronautical) and decided to study classical physics in depth along the way. It’s not obvious why you need to double major. What are your career goals?
So uhmm, I have seen your mail and yes, I have had experience with AMEP in UW-Madison.
It seems this degree is often overlooked as it really is a unique major (in the fact that no other universities in the States has it and is therefore a small program). In other words => from my experience, no, there are no degrees like this anywhere else in universities (even across the globe!).
However, on the flip note, Applied Math and Engineering Physics is much more common. If… you are willing to double major that is. So for this search, since applied math is pretty much in every reputable unviersity in America, go look for undergrad institutions that has Engineering Physics.
Some places that come immediately into my mind is (other than Madison) Stanford, UIUC, UMich, Cornell, MIT, CalTech, Columbia, RPI, Georgia Tech, UCBerkeley
Anyways, before I write on and on and on about AMEP at UW-Madison, I want you to know that my answer is biased in my perspective.
In addition, before adding any other information, I would like to reveal that after my freshman year at UW-Madison, due to a series of (“insert I have no idea what happened”) events, I am now in Columbia University in the City of New York.
So,… about AMEP in UW-Madison.
It is a very small program. Recently, there has been a lot more students trying to join the major (in fact, it feels almost exponential -since last year-)
- The work is hard. In case you didn't know, most people consider Intro engineering classes to be weeders. Guess what? You will be taking more of it in an accelerated honors track while being expected to perform as close to if not a 4.0.
- If you are coming with Calc BC credit and Physics credit, most likely, you will start your semester with Calc 3 or Diff Eq/Linear Algebra (Math 320). Well, I didn't do Math 320. I thought it was a poorly constructed class that taught you nothing and thus I took the harder route, Math 319 (Diff Eq) and Math 341 (Honors Linear Algebra). Now, let me tell you that Math 320 despite its higher number is indeed much much much easier than 319. And instead of the typical 3 credits that I could have taken (320), I decided to take 6 credits (319 and 341 at the same time). And if you hadn't known, Math 341 is a very time consuming class and I had a part time job + volunteer tutoring work too (and managing friends since I am a human being even with 18+ credits)
- The accelerated physics (Physics 247, 248, 249) is really really really hard. I took the 207 route cause my passion was more in math than physics so I didn't want to waste potential time of math in physics as much. Boy was even the 207 series hard. OK. Physics 207 is a joke honestly. However, Physics 208 was a pain. E&M never made sense for me so conceptually trying to explain that on the exam for the multiple choice questions didn't help me either Now, I had a friend who did the accelerated physics option. As you might have guessed, that class is full of students planning to major in physics. So ... the first week HW was about dark holes.... and she didn't even learn anything yet. Guess what happened to her. She barely passed the course and I was sure she was on the basement studying till 3 AM almost every night. Her GPA is now ruined and I guess... that means, good bye grad school?
- Math 321, Math 322 is perhaps the most grade deflated courses in UW-Madison. So people struggle with Calc 1 in college saying that it is such a huge change (btw, it honestly isn't. I found Calc 1 to be a free A after looking at the contents, exams, and the curve). The professor teaching the course is Waleffe and I heard he teaches extra-ordinarily well. Guess what though, the average GPA in Fall 2014 for Math 321 was 2.119. Proof: https://registrar.wisc.edu/documents/Stats_distribs_2014-2015Fall.pdf For that year, Math 322 was pretty well inflated in grades but in general, thus is the case for Math 322 too and you really don't know if you would be part of this or not.
- AMEP brings in some of the most talented students for STEM in UW-Madison. I might even make bold claims like "AMEP students tend to be the tippy top students for math/physics for undergrads". Now, take this student body and imagine curving a class to a 2.119 average GPA. What happens is...misery. Only 3~4 people can get A in the class of 50. Good luck getting it. Seriously, good luck. Especially when some of these students take exactly like 12 credits to study hard core on Math 321 and take rest of credits in winter/summer/1 more semester.
- You become a jack of all trades. Maybe you didn't know but, grad schools do not care whether you are good at everything or not. All they care is 1 thing. Research and how adept you are in your major. In other words, majoring in AMEP gives you a somewhat disadvantage for grad school in an engineering discipline you want, in physics, (not in applied math though), and in pure math.
- Though the course claims to start with Calc 1, almost all AMEP majors (if not all) that I met all started from Calc 3. It was considered normal. Cause otherwise, how would you follow your Physics 247 class? And all that I met already finished Chem requirement (including me). So, technically your first schedule becomes for AMEP:
- Calc 3 or Diff Eq or Linear Algebra or Diff Eq/Linear Algebra or Honors Linear Algebra
- Physics 247
- University Writing or a higher level writing
- Intro to Comp Sci or Discrete Math (I am adding this because almost everyone (literally) tries out Comp Sci )
- Whatever course you really love. Like for me, philosophy or another math course which I would rather take 1 more math course at the same time cause I enjoyed taking minimum 2 math courses per semester during high school! :)
- And ofc, a part time job or volunteer work or both or both plus clubs or wtvr u sign up for. And don't forget, friends!
Anyways, to sum it all up:
If you are taking the bare minimums listed on the website, then yes, it is a perfectly do-able major. However, I wanted to check out Comp Sci and pure math and some philosophy too while following the course requirement (and part time job + volunteer tutoring). This easily made the schedule pretty ridiculous and … it’s not the easiest thing to do.
If you love Physics and the applied math, I think this is a fantastic major though.
However, if you are like me who like the more pure math and (applied math being more theoretical comp sci), then you are going to suffer a bit more because pure math and comp sci (or the hybrid -applied computational math-) for grad school is extremely competitive.
In addition, since you need more exposure to “that major” for grad school rather than taking a bit of all, you are kinda forced to do the regular curriculum of AMEP + a bunch of every other courses that typical majors for “that major” takes (plus more!) to not be in a disadvantage. This makes things pretty streneous.
Let’s say you wanted to debate either Pure Math or Applied Math or Comp Sci. Ok, you are fine with Applied math. But Pure Math grad schools want a huge chunk not on the AMEP curriculum and Comp Sci too. Then you are forced to do everyone else’s work in Pure Math + Comp Sci (plus more on those majors to stay competitive) + the regular AMEP program.
Even if you were to combine some of the class equivalency credits, it is still a very difficult thing to do.
However, take my words with a grain of salt. I chose AMEP only to realize later (second semester) that my passion was for pure mathematics and as much as applied mathematics sound more nobler, I couldn’t help myself with proofs. And physics wasn’t my thing definitely. I might have been good at it but it wasn’t my thing. And I wanted to do applied math in the computer science field (realized I didn’t like the thought of engineering after physics) so …
I was pretty much a guy who chose AMEP when I loved Pure Math and Comp Sci and not Physics. In other words, I was trying to majoring in something completely different from my major while still completing the major.
Fortunately, in UW-Madison, you don’t have to declare till second year and you don’t enter by a certain discipline. All those weird posts about UW-Madison now accepting direct engineering students and stuff like that, take it with a grain of salt. It just means that you pay a 1000+$ more first year while taking the exact same courses. It’s pretty much a scam that gives u a false boost of ego first year only to realize you coulda saved an additional 1000+$ (unless you like the free 350 page idea per semester which I believe is nowhere neat 1000+$ dollars).
How do you know you like Engineering Physics? How do you know you like Applied Math?
Before college, you won’t. In fact, for all I know, you would fall in love with Pure Math in college (for that, I highly recommend for you to get exposure to at least Math 341 ASAP first year. <finish off="" calc="" 1,="" 2,="" 3,="" diff="" eq,="" linear="" algebra="" first="" year="" no="" matter="" what.="" and="" in="" ideal="" situation,="" try="" analysis="" 1="" second="" semester="" if="" you="" are="" bright="" enough="">)
Don’t forget. I came to college craving for applied math only realizing it was glorified physics and it wasn’t the most fun. Physics is just not my thing because in the derivation of many formulas, you see… lots of approximation and that really goes against my view of math being as pure as possible so numbers shouldn’t be tainted with rounding.
Anyways, you chose a college as a whole. You don’t need a university that serves a degree in something to learn that. I have seen math majors who knew more comp sci than comp sci majors but didn’t even have a minor.
Your experience of college is mostly made up by the peers you are with. You definitely learn like 60% more from being extremely talented students than difficult classes during your 4 years. Not saying that friends in UW-Madison aren’t as talented, just saying that there are places with higher concentrations in other places too (Although if you are instate, it is EXTREMELY difficult to pass up UW-Madison’s tuition and its amazing opportunities/4 years <= I was an OOS so the OOS tuition increase… told me “you know what, I truly love the university but I’m sure privates would cost the same at this price range”)
Don’t forget that financial aid exists in the top privates. For instance, a family making 120k$ dollars in Harvard (best financial system in the world) results Harvard’s CoA to be only like 13 thousand a year. Don’t forget. This includes sleep, insurance, housing, foods, etc so considering most places have housing just alone to be almost 10 thousand… it’s a bargain to apply to the top privates (and they generally have much more prestige and you know the power of brand name…I’m sure…just check Nike and other brand names)
<ofc, if="" you="" have="" unusual="" assets="" like="" me,="" this="" is="" nowhere="" true="" but="" still,="" just="" laying="" that="" out="" to="" in="" case="" didn’t="" know=""></ofc,>
To sum it all up though:
AMEP is a fascinating program. You seriously challenge yourself there. And if you decide to take minimum 18 credit each semester with at least 1 part time job with those courses being advanced courses, then yes, AMEP might be the hardest (academically speaking) thing ever. Especially if you crave as close to an A as possible.
However, I just don’t think the time is worth it because you become a jack of all trades. Which actually can hurt you. For instance, if you want to work in engineering, physics, or applied math, you are almost forced to go to grad school for the same job that most engineers can get with just an undergrad degree. Cause
***** AMEP IS NOT ABET ACCREDITED.**
I don’t care if you took the same exact courses as your engineer counterpart for engineering if not more. The fact that you don’t get ABET gives you an extremely HUGE disadvantage for getting jobs outa undergrad for most engineering disciplines.
And for grad schools, you have a somewhat disadvantage because you are weaker than your peers in either Engineering or Physics (ironically, for applied math, you are unusually a super strong candidate with this degree).
The reason the students in AMEP go to top grad schools is because the students in the program (including me) are the top from the beginning. In fact, I will make the case and argue that if you had chosen either engineering or physics from the start, you will have had a more cruize of 4 years AND a better chance at getting accepted to those grad schools.
Wow this is long.
But anyways, if you are instate for UW-Madison, dude just apply.
I was OOS and I find UW-Madison to be one of the best schools in the world. (Now I am at Columbia Uni so 
but still, the academics in UW-Madison honors is fascinating)
And hey, just go where your financial package is best. I re, formalized from comparing Columbia and UW-Madison that most competitive universities in the US are pretty much the same in “fit”. Actually, the “fit” case is I find a lie because all your classes depend on your individual professors, not your university “looks”. Also, those colleges claiming low student ratio? Dude, many of my UW-Madison classes first year had less than 20 students. Some going even 7. Sure they say State universities are huge in classes but if you skip the introductions and go straight for honors, then classes are rather small. At most usually 50. And also, surprisingly, from my experience, I find UW-Madison has lower student faculty ratio in the STEM classes. However, for humanities… I have to admit… top privates have a huge noticeable advantage there but then again, the tuition is different so 
bad comparison I guess.
<note though="" that="" after="" like="" 12="" students,="" 20,="" 50,="" even="" 300="" feels="" the="" same="" in="" stem="" courses.="" so="" don’t="" fret="" a="" lot="" you="" will="" be="" lost="" or="" something="" similar="" to="" that.="" cause="" won’t.="" that’s="" really="" more="" of="" propaganda="" than="" anything="">
And also,
you never know what you want to do a few years from now.
Apply to the best school you can while being practical of the cost.
For instance, if you have UW-Madison as instate, then even some of the top 10 schools in US News become hard to pass up when their financial package is nowhere near UW-Madison’s CoA.
<although i="" can’t="" completely="" claim="" that="" to="" be="" true="" because="" name="" brand="" does="" affect="" your="" career="" as="" much="" hate="" admit.="" names="" hold="" power="" -.-="" and="" give="" you="" advantages="" just="" from="">
Don’t be so into UW-Madison’s AMEP program. Most likely from what I heard from the department professors, many later one focus on just AM or Engineering Physics instead of forgoing AMEP program itself because they find it a somewhat waste of their time when they know which branch they want to go out later after graduation.
Wow this was long. I actually don’t recall what I wrote but anyways 
Oh and, in case you are wondering, I took in 1 semester for 1st year:
Honors Linear Algebra (around 4.5 hours of work outside a class a day)
Differential Equations (around ~4 hours of work outside class a week) <= and ofc, ~6 to ~8 hours a day right before midterms or finals. My professor gave around 32 problems per exam while other classes had 4. Made the exams feel more of a gladiator fight of who solves problem fastest than anything else. Questions are easy but doing 32 questions in the same amount of time as others doing 4 is not easy… Luckily the curve on this class was huge not cause exams were hard but because no one could get close to even finishing it -.-
Physics 208 (around 10 min of work outside class a week) <= if you do the masteringphysics correctly though and review class notes, more of 1 whole Sunday + 30 min a day)
Philosophy (around 1 min of work outside class a week)
Intro to Programming (very random. During projects, feels like the whole 24 hours a day but it’s cause of debugging and stuff like that)
<<<you can see Honors Linear Algebra and (ofc proof classes in general in math) take a huge chunk of time. And this is not part of AMEP requirement so… maybe that’s why AMEP became unnecessarily harder. But then, I found out it was worth it because I found my true passion. Pure Math! and plus, I learnt a lot. Literally. Good experience)
+
2 part time job/volunteer which takes around 15 hours a week of my life
+
memories in UW-Madison ofc with my friends, etc.
Ya…UW-Madison academics are pretty tough. And this is a good thing cause you are supposed to challenge yourself in college.
I still regret a bit to this day that I did not start Analysis 1 from first semester of freeshman year.
Since your junior, why not try taking Calc 3 or Honors Linear Algebra during senior year or summer if you are instate for UW-Madison?
I think it is definitely worth it ^^
^^ Now this is super long but anyways, ya.
You get the idea. AMEP was hard for me because it wasn’t meant to be for me.
If there was Pure Math + Comp Sci with a bit of the Engineering (ECE) though, , then I woulda loved it though.
And also, I did more than the minimum of the degree was necessary. That could also be why.
But like I said, all students in AMEP that I met pretty much started with Calc 3 so …
and during college,
almost everyone in STEM at least tries Intro to Comp Sci/Data Structures. So this could just be the reason why my workload felt a bit heavier.
But don’t fret too much!
I mean I transferred to Columbia Univ. That means I was doing perfectly well in UW-Madison. So is academics impossible? OFC not. Even after all this + 2 part time/volunteer work, I was able to make friends, make memories, go visit Chicago, etc. etc. and do well.
However, you will be losing some sleep and
do NOT do this major if your view of college is partying. I came to college to learn. So AMEP while challenging was also a beautiful experience. However, for most people in UW-Madison (tends to get drunk and party), AMEP is too much for them.
I doubt you have trouble with college adapting though. You seem pretty academically oriented from this post like me
That said, I really encourage that you stick more to 1 specific major like.
Applied math if you like applied math
Engineering if you like engineering (you don’t chose your engineering discipline until your first year where you have exposure to all engineering classes <= though it really doesn’t help you chose it is better choice I think than AMEP way of picking a random engineering in hopes you like it your end of 2nd year when it becomes pretty late)
Physics if you love physics
And if you like Engineering physics, just do engineering physics.
It’s really the best management of your time in my opinion. Gives you a better advantage for grad school and for jobs (Although applied math and engineering physics … you kinda need to go to grad school ^^)
Also, your major is usually like only 2/3 of your diploma. The rest is… you fill it up with requirement + what you are also interested in but don’t have time for another major. So ya, don’t fret too much on getting Engineering Physics and Applied math when you wanna do some math to your engineering physics degree.
You can just do engineering physics anywhere that offers it in usa and add some math courses on top of it ^^
Don’t fret and do well your junior year and go the best place you can get into without breaking your bank (be realistic)!
Now this is super long but hey, hope it told something… although I doubt it did ^^
<and oh="" ya,="" just="" in="" case="" you="" forgot,="" can="" double="" major="" applied="" math="" and="" engineering="" physics="" any="" place="" that="" offers="" physics.="" so="" :)="" if="" seriously="" want="" to="" even="" after="" this,="" then…="" dude,="" take="" a="" bet="" with="" amep.="" love="" physics,="" it’s="" for="" you.="" perfectly="" do-able="" people="" before="" me="" has="" done="" it="" on.="" though="" i="" might="" make="" sound="" impossible="" here="" right="" now,="" don’t="" forget,="" had="" much="" time="" do="" 2="" outside="" class="" things="" +="" play="" around="" waste="" lot="" of="" while="" managing="" the="" gpa=""> ^^
What does one do with Applied Math and Engineering Physics major/degree? OP, can you get a job after graduation from such a program? I’m trying to see the applicability of the degree versus a straight Engineering degree.
Many schools allow you to create your own interdisciplinary major so you can look for that attribute in a college as well.
Jamrock4111
College is not a trade school. The mindset of going to college for the sake of jobs I believe is somewhat wrong (not completely though since the investment in college is huge so we do expect something in return)
What does one do with applied math and engineering physics?
IT field is one of them. (Yea, cs degree isnt needed.)
Some entry level engineering job in engineering firms (more likely in the mech eng or electrical eng side)
Be an actuary. (Yes, you dont need an actuarial science degree)
Do some kind of job applied math undergrad does at stem firms in general. However, i do recommend grad degree for this… so
Be a business man (They love applied math majors if you have taken basic econ with it)
But as these are somewhat limited and the jobs are like… so random, the most applicable in the major is… (wait for it, wait for it):
Grad school
You do applied math or engineering physics to go to grad school.
Since engineering is pretty much funded at grad level, there is no immediate purpose of majoring in engineering at all in undergrad unless you truly want to learn just engineering in college (applied math and physics majors get the benefit of an advantage in grad school application as both the applied math or engineering physics programs love them AND the engineering programs too).
Now if engineering in grad isnt your thing, you can go to grad for applied math or engineering physics. For those who are wondering, i believe by bls that engineering physicist and applied mathematician earn more (monetary) than engineers. So ya, not that bad considering you can study your passions more (remember grad is funded) and get paid more upon graduation.
Whats with the hype with engineering anyways? Sure it makes your undergrad degree very technical and applicable but…
Other branches pay more (lol) and majoring in things like applied math and engineering physics allows you to get a grad degree in engineering if one wants to while for engineering, you cant really go to physics or applied math grad school with an engineering degree…
Applied math and engineering physics is more flexible.
This in itself can be a good or bad thing. However, seeing the career life being not as stable now, i think a bit more flexibility is better (if all goes bad, just go to grad school in engineering. Nothing too worrisome)
Btw, from my experience, most engineering physics majors become…
Nuclear physicist or nuclear engineers or aerospace engineering
(Very few go become an actual physicist)
And most applied majors become…
Applied mathematician… because ironically, they are in a demand and are wanted more than engineering (weird how applied math has no hype relatively)
@AccCreate
Have you looked at the profiles of college physics professors? They couldn’t go to graduate school in physics with an engineering degree? I know the undergrad dean of my ds’s university earned is bachelor’s in materials engineering before going to grad school for physics. EE and physics doubles are common. A triple in math may be the matter of only a few more math courses.
Fwiw, my ds was triple majoring in all three. I think he has decided that engineering is not something he feels called to (I’m not 100% sure about that, but it is what I gather from his comments.). He loves theoretical physics and math. He plans on grad school in physics, but he was encouraged by several profs to consider doubling in EE which is why he started off in that direction.
OP, I would keep all your options open. Since you are a high school jr without a calculus and physics background, I would not narrow your options too much at this point. You may end up loving physics, but you may not. My ds had a diehard mathematician objective until he took his first physics class. Physics quickly became his first love. He still loves math and takes math courses simply bc he enjoys them. You don’t need to have all the answers yet. Allow yourself time to explore ideas the next 2 yrs. FWIW, my ds purchased just about every Great Courses physics and astronomy course during high school. He loved them. Perhaps you would enjoy them. Many libraries carry them. They are also always going on sale for 70% off.
All Engineering causes you to take many math courses…so you may not need to specifically take more.
Case Western Reserve University has an Engineering Physics major.
The Engineering Physics major allows students with strong interests in both physics and engineering to concentrate their studies in the common areas of these disciplines. The Engineering Physics major prepares students to pursue careers in industry, either directly after undergraduate studies, or following graduate study in engineering or physics. Many employers value the unique problem solving approach of physics, especially in industrial research and development.
Students majoring in engineering physics complete the Engineering Core as well as a rigorous course of study in physics. Students select a concentration area from an engineering discipline, and must complete a sequence of at least four courses in this discipline. In addition, a senior research and design project under the guidance of a faculty member is required. The project includes a written report and participation in the senior seminar and symposium.