<p>I’m talking about 2012, not 1636 or whenever Harvard was started. (Don’t know the exact year, nor do I care all that much, so whatever.)</p>
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<p>You are free to believe whatever you like. You’re not free not to suffer the consequences, which is that you may be considered rather stupid for some of those beliefs. A college which teaches creationism is simply more backwards than a college which teaches commonly and widely accepted scientific truths. It’s no different from if they taught “intelligent falling” to explain why the apple hits the ground. Don’t expect smart people to be impressed.</p>
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it fascinates me how Catholics manage to put together excellent universities such as Gtown and ND and the evangelical Christian world can’t.</p>
<p>Well, there’s this little college that was founded by a group whose religion makes Falwell and his bunch look like weak-kneed moderates.</p>
<p>You might have heard of it. It’s called “Harvard.”*</p>
<p>Well, I don’t think the fact that some group founded Harvard centuries ago and may have had extreme religious views matters at all. It would matter if those views were still part of the university and its student body. What was the group? Puritans? What?</p>
<p>Once a school evolves (becomes co-ed, is no longer a military school, etc), what’s the point of mentioning what it once was in the context of what a student today would experience?</p>
<p>If my child doesn’t go to Harvard (an outcome my magic 8 ball tells me will happen “without a doubt”), I’ll tell people it’s because I look down on Puritans!</p>
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<p>I think Georgetown and Notre Dame were “put together” long before 2012.</p>
<p>There are scores of colleges affiliated with Christian bodies of most denominations, including some evangelical ones, that aren’t in the Bob Jones/Liberty/ORU orbit.</p>
<p>Yes, there are scores of colleges affiliated with Christian bodies that aren’t in the BJU/Liberty/ORU orbit. The point being? No one said it was ‘bad’ or ‘wrong’ for a college to be affiliated with a religious institution. What we’re saying is that it’s ‘bad’ if that body then refuses to accept and teach modern scientific truth. Which, of course, they are free to do; but we’re also free to be unimpressed.</p>
<p>Thank you, annasdad. ^^ </p>
<p>There are plenty of well-respected universities affiliated with Methodist, Baptist, Lutheran, and other Protestant denominations. Some are more theologically conservative while others are more liberal. However, they are all a whole world apart from Liberty.</p>
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<p>The point is that “someone” did say</p>
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<p>Pizzagirl – The point was that annasdad was refuting your assertion that the evangelical Christian world can’t “put together excellent universities”. You were wrong about that. Most universities from the evangelical tradition, indeed the vast majority, DO teach “modern scientific truth,” including evolution. </p>
<p>Not that annasdad needs me to help him with his argument. :)</p>
<p>^^ Marsian, indeed (and thanks for the help!).</p>
<p>As in:</p>
<p>“Evolution, a foundational principle of modern biology, is supported by overwhelming scientific evidence and is accepted by the vast majority of scientists. Because it is fundamental to the understanding of modern biology, the faculty in the Biology Department at Baylor University, Waco, TX, teach evolution throughout the biology curriculum. We are in accordance with the American Association for Advancement of Science’s statement on evolution. We are a science department, so we do not teach alternative hypotheses or philosophically deduced theories that cannot be tested rigorously.”</p>
<p>Baylor is, of course, affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention, the most theologically conservative of the large Protestant bodies - and the same body which claims Liberty as an affiliate. I just spent some time looking at some of the other, much less well known schools listed on the SBC website. Of the half dozen I looked at, all appear to be teaching real biology, though none of the others had as explicit a statement as Baylor’s.</p>
<p>Well, then I stand corrected, and am still unimpressed by a school that teaches creationism.</p>
<p>If LU does not teach critical thinking how does it do so well in debate where you may have to argue any side of an issue?</p>
<p>[Debate</a> wins second championship this season | Liberty University](<a href=“News Article | News & Events | Liberty University”>News Article | News & Events | Liberty University)</p>
<p>Who said they couldn’t be good debaters? You debate things that aren’t fact - you debate opinions (how to resolve the middle east conflict, should there be a death penalty, yada yada). The issue some of us have with Liberty is that they deliberately choose NOT to teach scientific truth. That’s as inappropriate as pretending gravity doesn’t exist or that the sun revolves around the earth.</p>
<p>In case anyone’s interested, here is one compilation of institutions that teach “young-earth” (creationism) “science.” Liberty is by far the biggest and most well-known.</p>
<p>[Conservative</a> Christian colleges, universities and seminaries (by region) ? ChristianAnswers.Net](<a href=“http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/creationist-schools.html]Conservative”>Conservative Christian colleges, universities and seminaries (by region) - ChristianAnswers.Net)</p>
<p>Nothing impressive on that list, that’s for sure!</p>
<p>Cedarville is a big advertiser here on CC.</p>
<p>I think it’s worth noting that a lot of these places are just classrooms attached to fundamentalist churches. They are not “colleges” in any sense of the word.</p>
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<p>Absolutely! I 100% agree with you. This is what happens in our world as well. If one is applying for a job as a new hire fresh from college, undergrad institute matters for many jobs. I’ll only let my boys go to places respected by future employers in fields they think they want to be in. We research fairly carefully.</p>
<p>However, the rules change as soon as one has a higher level degree as with Pizzagirl’s example (that’s the school used to determine ability) or plenty of time on the job as with the OP (that’s used, not any sort of degree other than to check a box). It’s why I’ve given advice as I have on this particular thread. Esp since their employer is paying for the degree, it just won’t matter. They ought to choose whichever they like or whichever is more convenient or whatever.</p>
<p>I’ve never actually recommended anyone attend Liberty/BJU/ORU or the like for undergrad, BUT, the only reason I’d discriminate against anyone who had is actual job related, not due to what they personally believe. I imagine Liberty can train accountants quite well (or other such jobs). I’ve seen some kids from our school go to Liberty and they aren’t dumb. They just feel they’d fit in there well as it matches their beliefs. I’m ok with that. It’s not a school for me and my house, but I’m ok with their making their own choices based upon who they are.</p>
<p>Discriminating against someone for what they believe is just not how I was brought up nor how I care to live. I grew up among Amish with my dad having a bit of contact (work wise) with them in the summer. I can’t imagine living the way they do, but I equally can’t imagine discriminating against them just because it’s how they choose to live/believe. It surprises me that anyone educated would. If one doesn’t care to hire a science grad from College A because of what they’ve learned (or haven’t learned) in class and it won’t fit in with the job, fine, don’t. If one won’t hire an accountant because they took a science class that disagrees with ones personal beliefs (and all other accounting stuff looks good - CPA, etc), that’s just plain wrong. There’d be no difference if one wouldn’t hire them because they followed Atkins or Vegan (or whatever went counter to the person doing the hiring).</p>
<p>It’s also wrong to assume the accounting isn’t good just because of the science classes, but that appears to be happening with some on here - due to prejudice more than anything “real.”</p>
<p>I think Georgetown and Notre Dame were “put together” long before 2012.</p>
<p>How does this refute PG’s argument concerning Evangelical Christian colleges? Naming Catholic unis seems irrelevant. And, since the Catholics have been founding unis for several centuries, it’s not odd that they have the model to do it correctly.</p>
<p>thinking how does it do so well in debate where you may have to argue any side of an issue?</p>
<p>Well, if they had to debate Creationism, they wouldn’t win that argument. They’d be laughed out of the building.</p>
<p>^^</p>
<p>To clarify…I do believe in Intelligent Design. I do ascribe to Thomas Aquinas’ assertation that there must have been an Uncaused Cause. However, that belief does not entail the absurd notion that the universe is only several thousand years old.</p>