My son is debating between UofM and one of the directional schools in Michigan (Central Michigan University). He qualifies for no scholarships at UofM but has earned full tuition scholarship at Central.
The debate for him does he go to UofM and graduate with significant loan\debt or got to Central and graduate with zero debt.
His area of focus is Math including Stats, Accounting or actuary science and he feels comfortable at both campuses.
Any input is appreciated - Thanks in advance.
Well…University of Michigan does guarantee to meet full need for all accepted in state student…does your kiddo not qualify for need based aid?
I agree with @thumper1 see what you get first. Infact… See if he gets in first also. Are there other school choices at this point?
I would normally say take the full ride but being instate for Michigan, you might want to take a look and figure out how to make it work. It has one of the best actuary programs. There is also significant scholarship for it, if he qualifies.
If he takes out the max loans he can at like $27,500 looking at what he is going into should not be a problem if you can financially afford it. If not then congrats on the full ride.
My sons in engineering at Michigan but was seriously looking at actuary. He met with the head of the department and was told if he wanted to go there their department would make sure money was there to help.
If your kid gets accepted or deferred, make an appointment with the chair of the department. He likes kids that want to start in their Freshman year since there are many paths in actuary.
If Michigan is affordable with just the federal student loan, I’d go with it. As a math major or actuary, the investment will be relatively easy to pay off.
In addition, Michigan “meets need” for instate families - he may well qualify for university grants based on income. Have you run the NPC?
How much debt is “significant debt”?
He may want to compare the offerings in math, statistics, economics, and finance at each school, as well as which courses at each school satisfy the Society of Actuaries’ Validation by Educational Experience list.
I would definitely run the net price calculator but I agree, without need UofM is not inexpensive. Two of my nieces turned down UofM because they got pretty close to all expenses paid at directionals and they are both headed for graduate school so weren’t concerned about UofM being a terminal degree. They just didn’t want to be saddled by loans after college. These kinds of decisions get made every day by Michigan kids. We are fortunate to have so many great colleges and unis in the state. I would also look at the starting salaries out of both colleges - it might not make any difference if he attends CMU for that type of degree and he or you all could save the money.
For actuary, I would look at what tests are covered and passed in the 4 years. Many colleges pass only 2, 3 or 4 of the 9 required to eventually pass. Michigan passes 5,which is a lot and a higher starting salary. The head of the department knew all the other heads since it’s a small community. He only recommended certain programs due to a certain certification. I looked but we thew away that list since it was 2 years ago. But many of the recommended colleges were not large colleges either.
I think the best choice could depend on how set the boy’s career goals are. Once someone gets to college a wide world of different futures remains open. Talent in math can take a student in many directions within college and beyond. The broad public reputation of UM is much stronger than CMU’s. If the kid is open to a range of possible future careers, and if the amount of debt he would graduate with is something that can be overcome in a few years, I think he should choose UM.
My son was offered an honors scholarship amounting to about 50% of COA at UM, and a full-ride Alumni Distinguished Scholarship at MSU. But he chose to enroll at UChicago (with a small National Merit Award – and with his parents and grandparents bearing most of the costs). He didn’t know what career line he would follow, but he thought an academic career was possible. A degree from either UM or UofC would be a very good jumping off place for graduate school and an academic career. One lure of UofC was that it was located in a major league city.
Post #7 college choice is irrelevant- the OP is considering Michigan or a much less prestigious school while post #7 is comparing the same general tier.
The key is future goals. Plus- although he gets no money from Michigan if he is a top student who will be in top classes he likely would benefit from the courses available at U of M. Think in terms of honors classes, numbers in majors and peer group. Will he be better prepared for work/grad school? Will he find his academic peer group at both places? For math and related subjects the possibilities for grad level courses should be better at U of M. For business majors (accounting, actuary science) he needs to be sure he can get into the business school.
With instate tuition his debt load may not be as high as if comparing OOS/private schools. Aim high for the best academics. Decades later he will not have regretted giving up the better school- he should have been able to pay off loans with such practical majors.
@wis75 maybe I am misreading something but actuarial science at Michigan is under LSA not the business school.
https://lsa.umich.edu/math/undergraduates/major-and-minor-programs/actuarial-mathematics.html
@ybot2019 I just looked at the in-statecosts for both in order to understand the real budget differences. It looks like UM will avg out to around $31,000/yr and CMU to around $11,000.
In our family, this would not even be a question for discussion. We as parents refuse to take out loans or co-sign for loans. UM would fall into the unaffordable range. Our kids have no option but to stay in that current-for-you CMU cost range bc it is all they can afford. (Our EFC is more around the UM range.)
Fwiw, our kids have all attended non-top ranked schools on scholarship and have been able to pursue their post-college career goals without issue. Talk to the depts at CMU and see what his opportunities will be like on campus and where/what their students are doing post-graduation. That may reveal a lot. One of my ds’s and I met with a couple of depts at higher ranked schools than where he ultimately attended and he crossed those schools off his list without hesitation. One dept head told him that their focus for research was on their grad students and that UGs typically worked for grad students if they were able to get a research position. The other school’s UG advisor and dept head could not answer his question about where their students went after graduating. They looked at each other for help with blank stares. They also dismissed his desire for UG research opportunities. That ds ended up at a lower ranked school, but he had direct-with-professor UG research starting freshman yr and had great profs as mentors in the dept. That dept cared about their UGs. He ended up at a top grad school and one of his friends from the dept is now at Harvard for med school. Ranking isn’t everything.
It depends. Are you in-state? If that’s the case, then both are excellent options. If you’re out of state, then Michigan would be a terrible idea, and Central Michigan would be a great idea.
Your income also matters - UMichigan is very generous for financial aid but not merit.
Interviewing Dept chairs and professors is a very good idea.
(Michigan State Honors and Grand Valley State Honors are more often mentioned for kids with UMichigan stats who need merit scholarships.)
Based on the timing of the OP’s question, it seems likely the applicant hasn’t yet been accepted to Michigan, which hasn’t yet released its EA decisions. I’d say wait to see whether he’s admitted, and if so what his FA offer looks like.
For an in-state student who is intent on staying in-state after graduating and pursuing a career as an accountant or actuary, a degree from CMU is probably just fine. The school is well-known and reasonably well-respected in the state of Michigan, and it has its own alumni network concentrated there. But overall the University of Michigan’s math department is much stronger–one of the best in the country, in fact—and as a previous poster noted, mathematically talented students often find their interests gravitate toward other areas of math. And talented math majors from schools with as strong a reputation as Michigan’s often find they have a wealth of professional opportunities beyond accounting or actuarial work, though those career paths also remain open to them. Michigan’s stronger national and international reputation and alumni network would also likely have a bigger payoff for a student looking for a career outside the state of Michigan, especially one “aiming high” for the most competitive positions.
Short-term costs are one thing. Long-term career prospects are another. In general, Michigan grads earn more than CMU grads. The U.S. Department of Education’s “College Scorecard” reports that 10 years after entering college (so roughly at age 28), the average Michigan grad makes $63,400, while the average CMU grad makes $41,900. At that rate it would take about 4 years of earnings to make up for the difference in cost between full in-state COA at Michigan and net COA after a full-tuition scholarship at CMU. So net lifetime earnings would clearly be higher for the Michigan grad. But those figures are averages across all fields of study; it could be that for an accountant or actuary, the gap wouldn’t be that wide.
I agree with @bclintonk but have to point out that this probably reflects the calibre of admittted students more than what they get from the school (Entering class Umich av. GPA 3.88, ACT 31-34, CMich av. GPA 3.33, ACT 23).
Another factor is quality of life and school experience, which for many would tip to Ann Arbor over Mount Pleasant.
This is a really tough choice because the difference would be $20K a year so $80K total for UM, not the typical OOS difference of $250K vs full ride in which case you’d choose the full-ride. I would lean to UM in this case, especially if you get into accounting at Ross. Another reason is if you change majors, which of course happens a lot. Meaning that in this case, a student as part of the core say takes econ or a class in international relations and decides, this maybe what he or she would be doing. In this case, you’re much better off at Michigan. There are very few universities in this country, imo, that do not have a weak major, UM is one of them.
In a field with high renumeration like actuarial sciences or math, it is worth the $80K difference simply because your child would be able to pay be the loans in a few years. Recruiters from top paying companies tend to pick from top ranked schools.
^^in theory but not necessarily true for all majors as many industries have pretty narrow starting salary pay range and after that it is dependent on the person. The posts saying to look into hiring practices, class sizes and the major course structure are spot on. What industry and where the student might be interested in living post graduation also have some bearing.
This is why all we can do is offer things to think about. We do not want all of the details to be more helpful- too many variables to disclose. Hopefully we have the family thinking beyond the bit they knew. Good luck with the decision, OP’s kid.
Wis75 nails it. Difficult to discuss all the details and variables.
All the responses have been helpful in discussions with our son to help him make an educated choice.
Funny how a 17 year old is being challenged with making a $50-80k decision. His biggest financial decision usually is how many toppings to get on a pizza.