University of Michigan vs University of Florida

Parents Forum
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<p>But what exactly defines it as public? If the taxpayers are footing “only” 10% of the bill, what’s the rationale? Frankly, I’ll let you have the last word after this because this debate is very long and, at certain points, arcane. But while it doesn’t, perhaps, have to be black or white, it also seems to me that the idea of paying taxes to support even that much of a school, but then essentially having no advantage for admission relative to an OOS’er that paid nothing into the system all those years, is a muddled concept at best. But hey, it is something that is entirely up to the residents of Michigan and if they like it, God bless them. I may disagree philosophically with the idea of a hybrid such as this, but I more believe the people of the state can and should do what they think works best for them.</p>

<p>I just wonder what would happen if a state resident found out that they had been denied admission and an apparently less qualified OOS person got in. Has there been a case like that where someone went to court over it? Obviously race has come up in the past, but how about residency? Just curious.</p>

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<p>As an OOS family choosing to send our child to Michigan, part of the attraction for my daughter was a diverse student body with students from all over the country. And as a paying out of stater it goes down a lot easier knowing the classroom isn’t filled with 90 % of students paying a whole lot less then me!</p>

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<p>I just wonder what would happen if a state resident found out that they had been denied admission and an apparently less qualified OOS person got in.</p>

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<p>Happens all the time in NY (not that the schools have the cache of UM). And then the SUNYs wonder why they dont get more support from taxpayer.</p>

<p>I suspect this will be more and more of an issue, as state schools have budget cuts.</p>

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<p>What defines it as “public” is that residents of the State of Michigan get a huge discount on tuition at one of the best universities in the country just by virtue of state residence, they get preferential treatment in university-administered need-based financial aid, many university-administered merit scholarships give preferential treatment to state residents, and I believe (and continue to believe) state residents do get preferential treatment in admissions, up to a point. Why do they get all this? Because the University understands itself and has always understood itself to be a public institution, created to serve the citizens of Michigan, and recognized in the state constitution as a public institution, governed by a publicly elected autonomous governing body, answerable to the Michigan electorate. But the university also believes it shouldn’t compromise on quality, and that it actually is a stronger public asset if it maintains rigorous academic standards and, yes, invites in a large number of extremely talented OOS students.</p>

<p>I don’t know where you get this idea that Michigan’s admissions standards are lower for OOS students. Everything I’ve ever seen on this says that’s not the case; just the opposite. If you look at the composition of the honors program, for example, which is purely merit-based, I’d say typically half or more of the students in that program are OOS students, as compared to about 35% of the student body as a whole. But the overall admission rate is higher for in-state kids than for OOS, even though the overall OOS applicant pool is somewhat more highly qualified. At any given level of stats and other qualifications, the in-state kid is going to have a higher likelihood of admission. In-state kids whose stats would put them in the top quartile of Michigan’s class are virtually certain to be admitted; for OOS kids at that level it’s much more hit-and-miss. An in-state kid around the middle of the class has a much better chance at admission than an OOS kid at that level, for whom Michigan should probably be regarded as a reach. And OOS kids whose stats would put them in the bottom quartile probably have almost no chance, unless they’re projected to start at middle linebacker a couple years down the road; while for in-state kids in that range, it’s not out of the question. </p>

<p>Oh, and as a former Michigan resident who attended the University of Michigan as an undergrad, I think there’s no question it enriched my undergraduate experience to be part of a highly diverse student body, including lots of kids from Chicago, New York, Washington, and all over.</p>

<p>Then, too, there’s the fact that by serving as a talent magnet attracting so many bright and talented OOS students, a non-trivial fraction of whom end up staying in-state (especially in the Ann Arbor area, which has a dynamic and growing economy with a lot of high-end jobs, contributing a lot to the state’s tax base which has otherwise been beleaguered lately), the University is actually pulling up the average level of talent, skills, and educational attainment in the state, something Michigan desperately needs. </p>

<p>The idea that Michigan taxpayers are somehow being cheated here is just absurd. They’re investing a small amount, and getting far more from the University in return.</p>

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<p>Bclintonk…I couldn’t have said it better myself!</p>

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<p>Bclintonk-could you explain that to the citizens of Wisconsin too? Everyone is going down that same road unless something changes significantly. Some states seem to get that and make the best of it–others–not so much. They still think their minor funding role should give them 100% control.</p>

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I have to answer this statement, because I never said that. I said IF that happened, then a Michigan resident would have reason to complain. Please read more carefully next time, or at least represent what I said accurately. But do you really think there aren’t some OOS students that on paper seem less qualified than some Michigan residents that got turned down?</p>

<p>I will at this point simply point out that nothing that the university is accomplishing now could not be accomplished at least as well by being completely private. Tulane, for example, also chooses to make special entrance guarantees for Louisiana residents, and give numerous scholarships that are for Louisiana residents only, thus accomplishing much the same thing that Michigan does, without taxing the citizens of Louisiana directly to subsidize the school. Again, not really complaining about the Michigan model, just pointing out that there is a bit of a conflict for state taxpayers that support the school through their taxes but then see slots given to OOS students. Your reasons for that being a good thing are valid, but it isn’t cut and dried that it is without issues.</p>

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<p>I believe part of Michigan’s greatness is that it pulls from all over the country adding to the dynamic, diverse community everyone loves Michigan for. In state students have the best of both worlds. They get to share their amazing, nationally, world recognized. school with other like minded students, yet paying in state tuition…dam right the in state kids better be as smart as my out of state kid. Bring it on, that’s what my daughter wants. Enough smart to go around!!!</p>

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<p>They get the slots they deserve/pay for plus some. Do you not understand that fact? This is an old deal with the state–less money= fewer instate slots.</p>

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<p>Not comparable, not even close. Tulane, with a student body of about 8,300, is 30% in-state, 70% OOS. So that’s about 2,500 Louisiana residents, or a little over 600 per year, who get to attend Tulane. That’s enough that I won’t say it’s a token effort on Tulane’s part, but the opportunities Tulane provides to Louisiana residents pale in comparison to what the University of Michigan offers Michigan residents–some 17,500 in-state undergrads for whom the University not only offers a tuition rate less than 1/3 the OOS rate, but also promises to meet 100% of need for those who still have need despite the deep discount. Not to mention additional thousands of in-state graduate and professional students.</p>

<p>Sure, the state could cut off funding to the University of Michigan, or the University could just refuse state funding. But then where would we be? You can’t get something for nothing; that money would need to be made up somewhere. The obvious place to start would be by replacing tuition-discounted in-state students with full-tuition OOS students. At a tuition differential of $25K per student, Michigan would need to reduce in-state enrollment (and increase OOS enrollment) by something on the order of 12,000 to make up the difference. Which, come to think of it, would put Michigan about on par with Tulane, serving a student body that is about 25-30% in-state.</p>

<p>Would the citizens and taxpayers of Michigan be better off? Well, they could keep their $300 million, or spend it on less stellar public universities. And $300 million isn’t peanuts; it’s about $30 per capita per year. But in the process they’d have gone from being a state where the best and brightest coming out of the state’s high schools have an opportunity to attend one of the world’s best universities at bargain rates, to a state where only a small fraction now have that opportunity, while the rest settle for something more middling. I actually don’t think there’s a big clamor in the state of Michigan to privatize the University of Michigan, and the University doesn’t want it, either. The citizens and taxpayers of Michigan know they’re getting far more in benefits than they pay in taxes, because the University puts in far more of its own resources than the State does to provide discounted tuition and financial aid to Michigan residents.</p>

<p>But there will always be those who think if you buy a 10% share in the business you’re entitled to 100% of the profits.</p>

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<p>Send her to Michigan.</p>

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<p>Hope the Op knows that the large majority of OOS students hail from one state…New York; it is the second highest representative state in the freshman class for the last five years…</p>

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That isn’t a fact, that is an opinion. Do you not understand THAT fact?</p>

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<p>I’m not surprised that NY has the largest number of OOS representation at Michigan. It is a pretty populated state with many wealthy areas. Michigan is one of the best schools in the country, why wouldn’t New Yorkers send their kids there…</p>

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<p>The are a lot of New Yorkers at the University of Michigan, but I doubt they represent a “large majority” of OOS students. Roughly 1 out of 6 non-Michiganders is an international student; something like 90 countries are represented. Among U.S. states, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey all send substantial numbers of students to Michigan, but all 50 states represented in the undergraduate student body.</p>

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<p>^^^There is another reason why so many New Yorkers attend Michigan. NY has a large Jewish population. Michigan has been a top university for generations and had always accepted large numbers of Jews at a time when many private top east coast schools had quotas. This pipeline has been going on for generations.</p>

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<p>^^^^^^^^ yes…</p>

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<p>Anecdotal view–even back in the early 70s when I went to Michigan there were lots of kids from NY. Don’t have data to back it up, but that’s my impression. I had a couple of OOS friends and they were from NY and Chicago.</p>

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<p>Actually fallenchemist-it is a fact that is often discussed and updated between the university and the state at the highest levels.</p>

<p>The University of Michigan has seen state revenues fall by about $100 million in inflation-adjusted dollars over the last six years, but has not dramatically changed its residency mix in response, Hanlon said. That said, there are more challenges on the horizon. Not only is the state facing a $1.6 billion budget deficit, but Gov. Jennifer Granholm is pressing universities to hold tuition at current levels for in-state students. While Hanlon doesn’t see increasing the number of out-of-state students as a quick solution to revenue woes, he acknowledged “as part of a [long term] competitive strategy, I’m sure we would look at residency mix.”</p>

<p>Read more: [Interstate</a> Commerce | Inside Higher Ed](<a href=“http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/02/12/tuition#ixzz1oAvlgT6O]Interstate”>http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/02/12/tuition#ixzz1oAvlgT6O)
Inside Higher Ed</p>

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<p>^^^^^do you know if part of the state of Michigan’s future “budget fix” is to keep in state tuition the same while raising OOS even more???</p>