<p>Rutgers camden isn’t a big undergrad campus. It’s mostly known for its law and business MBA programs, which a lot of people do part time.</p>
<p>The gifted kid, once freed from the boredom of school, may become a hard work. My S told me tonight, in the car, that he just wished his time were his own. That if he didn’t have school, who knows what he could do. And, if you look at many of the major contributors to adult life, once they didn’t have school they kicked butt.</p>
<p>So mstee, yes, the conversation you had with your son in the car to me was the most important thing. We love you our little children. And we will always love you. And please return the favor and contribute to the human race.</p>
<p>2331clk- Good for your son! Ss grades are all 100 (on exams)or 0 (homework). That does not make for a high enough average to get him into AP classes. Always waiting for a turnaround here though.</p>
<p>Momnipotent: in many states you have a legal right to put your kids in whatever class YOU feel is best suited for them. In other words, tell the school you want your son in AP, if that’s the class you want. </p>
<p>(The district where I sub has a policy of “if you want into AP, that’s good enough”–and it’s worked very well.)</p>
<p>I am going to try that for next year. He has been so emotionally unsettled for the past few that the AP /honors battle fell off the plate. Good news is that we are on week 3 of new med and things are subtly getting better! He is able to sit and do some homework without pulling his hair out.</p>
<p>Alumother, you made me smile!</p>
<p>momnipotent, I went back and read your earlier posts in this thread. As you probably know a lot of labelled psychological maladies (for lack of a more appropriate term) go hand in hand with others, as is the case with your S. My son’s ADD (not a strong case of it but still diagnosed by a psychologist) partners with panic disorder. ADD diagnosis was made at 21 (as someone mentioned earlier ADD is often diagnosed late in smart kids), panic disorder surfaced at 22 (he’s 23) during NYC summer internship…I was never so frightened in my life at his symptoms, he was like a zombie.</p>
<p>Medication has worked quickly and thoroughly to keep his PD under check, thank goodness, and he handles NYC living and working just fine, thrives at work and loves the city. The only issue is his running out of meds…he actually “borrows” these meds from his friends, so it can’t be too uncommon! I’m encouraged your son is making progress. He doesn’t sound like he’s ready for AP type courses yet. Luckily so much of success in life is NOT directly related to the grades one earns in school.</p>
<p>interesting 2331ck; </p>
<p>My son who has ADD (non-hyperactive) also has a OCD history (mild hair-pulling)… obviously these brain chemistry things come in clusters. We were warned about Ritalin maybe exacerbating the OCD… but I was more comoftable trying Ritalin at first as it had been in use much longer. Lucikly it did not have a negative effect on my son and it has been a big help to ADD.</p>
<p>I am certified to teach Academically Able/Gifted/Honors. The traits you mention about your son are very common in gifted children, and you wouldn’t believe how many gifted kids do not do their work. Gifted children can’t see why if they understand something right away (it comes easily to them) that they have to do the busy work. Many kids use not doing the homework, etc., as a means to give them an excuse in case they do fail. If they fail (to them, this means not getting an A) and they did all the work, then they have to question their own abilities. To many, this is devastating. So, they just blame not doing their work for their grades. That is not to say that this is why your child is unmotivated. There are many reasons why gifted children do not perform well in school (obviously, many do, as well). In our district, the grade distributions of the departments must be posted. Math does 90% tests, 10% daily and homework. Foreign Language does 50/50. Each department revisits this every year. Our district guidelines also state that homework cannot count for more than 10% (can be less). This info is available to anyone who wants it. I know of kid who didn’t do his work, barely graduated, but on his own read the 100 books to read to be considered literate. In terms of motivating your child, there is no magic answer. Is there anything he wants badly enough to do the work? Some kids want to get into HYP, but realize that they can’t unless their grades match their abilities, so that motivates them. Others say they want that, but still refuse to do what is needed. The argument that you sometimes have to do things that you don’t like in order to get what you want falls on deal ears. Each child has their own built in motivator, and unless you find that, nothing will work. And yes, many of these kids are bored, and see homeowrk as beneath them. We have found that many of these kids do well in schools where there is no core, or many choices in the core so they have a choice in taking classes that interest them. Rest assured, once your child matures and goes on to college, a lot of this changes, as long as the child is challenged. In the meantime, it is frustrating for parents and teachers, both. And it is frustrating for the child, as well.</p>
<p>also interestingly, son’s college semester grades were on the order of 3.7 followed by 2.7 then 3.7 then 2.6 then 3.8 for a B+/A- average, but I don’t think he ever actually GOT a 3.2 or 3.3 (where he ended up), the grades were so erratic.</p>
<p>Finally, about a week before he graduated we had a heart to heart talk. He was all set to begin his dream job in a couple months. He said dad I’m going to tell you something, but before I do I don’t want you to think for a second you wasted any $ for my education. I learned a lot and feel I got a great education and he thanked me.</p>
<p>Then he told me with any effort he could have graduated with a 4.0 or close to it…easily! He said there was nothing he didn’t understand or have trouble with. That statement summed up the whole experience for me. I laughed with him and inside cried. (this was computer science at a top 5 CS school)</p>
<p>evitajr, also if the gifted kid doesn’t like a subject he doesn’t see the point in wasting time on it. I’m not saying this is right or even excusable but it seems this is common. In addition they understand things so quickly they don’t see the “point” in rote work that non gifted kids might need to understand that which is being taught.</p>
<p>2331clk, in a very short time, nobody is ever going to care about your son’s grades ever again.</p>
<p>you’re right, no one knows that more than I…I’m in a health field, where no one not only cares about what grades you got, they also couldn’t care less where you went to school.</p>
<p>PS he plans an mba eventually (who knows) so grades will count somewhat</p>
<p>I’m almost 50 and I have never been asked my grades. Never. :)</p>
<p>2331clk- thanks to you and all others for posting. I am dead smack in the middle of treatment for S right now and for every few good days there seems to be a really off/bad day. And by off , I mean scary. S has described a recurring panic attack daily at 8:15???not associated with anything in particular. If I didn’t have my homework completed as he doesn’t, I would have a realbig panic attack everyday! I am encouraged by your stories. Just really worried about my S and also for his “perfect” S who has to listen to stories (and tell them to me) from school everyday. That which does not kill us will make us much stronger.</p>
<p>SBmom- we are backing off of Adderal right now because it is likely contributing to some OCD behaviors. I remember you posting on what was my first thread- about ADD- and you were debating on whether to medicate or not. Sounds like things are going well…which makes me glad.</p>
<p>I may have taught my D functional cynicism at an early age: “There are some things you gotta do even if they’re dumb.” Iow, pick your battles, there are times to fight the system, times to go with the flow. I think she’d learned this lesson no later than age seven.</p>
<p>TheDad,</p>
<p>In my limited experience (one of each), daughters learn this lesson far more readily than sons.</p>
<p>I was thinking about this, too, just yesterday. About how boys feel like they have to dig in and fight the system (a generalization, I know, of course, there are plenty of boys who don’t, but I’m speaking from my personal experience with my own two boys and three girls).</p>
<p>When my S#2 was in middle school, a couple of times we had to pull him out of a class because of the teacher. In sixth grade it was the math teacher. The next year it was a science teacher who has a system for teaching that is inflexible. One of his rules was that you had to copy his notes off the board a certain way in your notebook or you would get detention. Well guess what, S#2 did not copy the notes and got detention, and he just could not handle it, the injustice of it, or whatever, and we finally ended up switching him to a different class. Now, this year, my 12 year old, the model student girl, got the same science teacher. And I warned her about him, but also said, if you do exactly what he says, it is an easy A, you just have to do EXACTLY what he says. She thought about switching out, but then decided not to, because it would screw up the rest of her schedule and all her friends were in the same class. So, last night she asks me to sign this paper, a list of all the assignments and tests and the percentages she got on them. All 100%. I even asked her, you didn’t get even ONE thing wrong? Nope. It was apparently no biggie to her to just adjust to the teacher. But S#2 simply could not.</p>
<p>
How ridiculous!!! I’m afraid I’d have spent time in detention, too – not as a child (I was one of those cooperative girls!) but as an adult. (I’ve outgrown the need to please.)</p>
<p>This is the kind of thing that just drives me and my kids crazy. And I also think it’s a significant reason why boys have such trouble in academic settings. My younger son, in particular, has trouble understanding the need to do stupid things for a grade. If a kid can survive this kind of system, what does that do for his/her creativity and enthusiasm for learning? I’d have taken my son out of that class, too, mstee.</p>
<p>I just wanted to add that this is also why my kids did better in classes where they were really challenged. Most AP or Honors classes don’t seem to have busy work, at least at their school.</p>
<p>Here is another set of colleges that accepted students with GPA’s lower than 2.5, taken from the Naviance site for another large public high school in NJ. Apologies in advance to screenname. As before, the numbers in parentheses represent the lowest GPA accepted over the past three years.</p>
<p>U. Alabama (1.8)
Alvernia College (2.4)
Bloomfield College (2.2)
Bloomsburg U. of Pa. (2.1)
Castleton State College (1.4)
Centenary College (2.0)
Central Connecticut Sytate U. (1.8)
Champlain College (2.4)
College of Charleston (2.2)
The Citadel (2.4)
City College of CUNY (2.3)
Clarion U. of Pa. (2.4)
Davis College (2.2)
DeVry U. (1.4)
Drexel U. (2.0)
East Stroudsburg U. of Pa. (2.1)
Elizabeth City State U. (2.2)
Fairleigh Dickinson U. (1.5)
Hampton U. (2.4)
U. Hartford (2.1)
Hofstra U. (2.3)
Howard U. (2.4)
Kansas State U. (1.8)
U. Kansas (1.8)
Kean U. (1.8)
Kutztown U. of Pa. (2.1)
Liberty U. (2.2)
Long Island U., Brooklyn Campus (2.4)
Lycoming College (2.4)
U. Massachusetts, Lowell (1.8)
Merrimack College (2.4)
College Miseriacordia (2.4)
U. Missouri, Columbia (1.8)
Monmouth U. (2.0)
Montclair State U. (2.2)
Morehouse College (2.4)
U. Nebraska, Lincoln (1.8)
New Jersey Institute of Technology (2.3)
U. North Carolina, Chapel Hill (2.2) ;wow, some hook here, maybe a recruited athlete
U. North Carolina, Wilmington (2.2)
Northwood U., Florida (1.7)
Oklahoma State U. (2.2)
Paul Smith’s College (2.1)
Pennsylvania College of Technology (2.0)
Pennsylvania State U., Altoona (2.4)
Pennsylvania Stste U., University Park (2.4)
Philadelphia U. (2.1)
Ramapo College of New Jersey (2.4)
U. Rhode Island (2.4)
Richard Stockton COllege of New Jersey (2.4)
Rider U. (2.0)
Robert Morris U. (2.2)
Roger Williams U. (2.3)
Rowan U. (1.8)
Rutgers U., New Brunswick (1.8)
St. Peter’s College (1.8)
U. South Florida (2.4)
SUNY Albany (2.4)
Temple U. (2.4)
Tennessee Technological U. (1.8)
Universal Technical Institute (2.4)
Wesley College (2.2)
West Virginia U. (2.1)
Western Connecticut State U. (2.3)
Western Kentucky U. (1.8)
Western New England College (2.1)
Widener U. (2.1)
William Paterson U. of New Jersey (2.2)</p>