unmotivated "gifted" child ???

Parent Cafe
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<p>I was reading the thread about gifted child industry and it started me thinking about my youngest son (sixth grade). I am sure you all will have some ideas here:</p>

<p>S has been in gifted programs since kindergarten after iq testing. He always enjoys his classes in that context (it seems to be a pull-out program) but he struggles in his regular classroom work. Basically, he doesn’t want to do his homework! grrrrr.
He loves science and does well in his class work in that subject. He reads things like LOTR and is almost done with the Narnia chronicles, but is failing in “reading” b/c he won’t complete whatever assignments he has. He tests VERY well on standardized tests----in all subjects. </p>

<p>He is very shy and quiet, so I don’t think he falls into the “bored and therefore disrupting the class” category. But I wonder if he is bored? Truth be told, I admit that I always thought that was an adjective used by parents to make excuses for their kids’ bratty behavior (oh, but he’s just bored ), but I’ve since changed my mind (not with my S, but with other kids I’ve seen who were not disruptive). </p>

<p>Anyway, I’m sure others have kids like this…what do you do with them?</p>

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<p>In terms of school academics, there is probably little that you can do. Private HS’s, especially the church schools, may not offer much more. If he has any interest, music is a great activity. The fun of playing and the discipline of practicing are valuable, but the interest depends on the kid. Sports are another option. Whether gifted or not, the more opportunities and choices, the better.</p>

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<p>Two sons of acquaintances of mine had similar traits – scored extremely well on standardized tests, but refused to do homework.</p>

<p>In one case, the parents were at a lost as to how to get their son to do homework, they had the kid see a psychologist (when he was in 9th grade).</p>

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<p>Yes, he could be bored. He also could be ADD and lack the focus to do things that don’t interest him much. My younger S is similar to how you describe your S. Because he has sky high test scores and class exam scores, when I tried to get him assessed for ADD, no one believed he could be that way (even though ADD/ADHD runs in the family).</p>

<p>It wasn’t until he was a senior and was assessed by a psychologist who does EEGbiofeedback, which shows which brain waves people use when doing tasks, that we learned that when S concentrates on a boring task, his brain flips into theta waves, which is a groggy state.</p>

<p>Of course, your S might simply be unwilling to do homework that he doesn’t particularly like, but still, consider all possibilities for his behavior.</p>

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<p>DrDrewsmom: I sent you a PM.</p>

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<p>There <em>are</em> schools that emphasize testing and not homework, where homework is not graded, where long-term assignments are more interesting… I found one for my son, the one who had a 70.1 in math in 8th grade because he got 100% on all the tests (despite being ahead three years) but did only 1 HW assignment all year–to make sure he passed (HW was 30% of the grade).</p>

<p>I think that the majority of homework is meaningless, boring, and easily recognized by the students as a simple way of boosting the grades of students who “don’t test well.” (Yes, there are teachers who are exceptions; I even know a few of them.)</p>

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<p>DrDrewsmom, that is my oldest to a “t” including the book choices. I have heard from so many teachers over the years that, “He is the brightest math student I have ever had, but won’t show his work”, “His test grades are high a’s, but his homework average is low, so he is getting a c”, “He is so smart, but won’t take care of his business”, etc. We had him tested for ADD by a neuropsych. in 4th grade and he has been medicated since. It helped with his focus, but not his motivation. We sent him to a private hs that is structured like college, pretty much no homework grades, heavy emphasis on tests, quizzes and papers. He was pretty successful there and really enjoyed the challenge. He ended up a NMF with over a 1500 on the SAT, but ranked around the 30% of his class. Now he is a freshman in college and extremely happy at his school. I really don’t know how his classes are going (besides the limited info I get from him). I hope he is doing well, but it is ultimately up to him and I cannot check in with teachers anymore. I must say that it is a pretty nice place to be after all the years of stressful parenting. Good luck, my thoughts are with you, I have been where you are and I know I wanted to pull my (or his) hair out alot of the time!!!</p>

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<p>DrDrewsmom,</p>

<p>Other than being in sixth grade, you could be describing my son exactly. He is now in tenth grade. He does great on standardized tests, his teachers say he’s highly intelligent, but he refuses to do any work at home. He does quite well provided he has an interest in the subject and the right kind of teacher, but in all other cases he seems completely unmotivated. He has no interest in after school activities. He gives us the “bored” excuse and says that he already knows the material being taught, and questions the usefulness of having to regurgitate it on homework and tests. He is usually, but not always, correct when it comes to knowing the material because he can talk about much of it at length when he wants to.</p>

<p>He is not motivated by grades. Lectures, pleas and threats are all ignored. Punishments (taking away priveleges, grounding, suspending allowance, etc.) have not worked at all because he has proved he can tolerate any punishment I can bear to impose. Incentives (increasing allowance, outings to sporting events, overnights with friends) work for a few days at best. We are hoping that, in several months, the issue of learning to drive will give us some leverage.</p>

<p>We’ve tried changing teachers, changing schools, hiring learning consultants, outside tutoring, therapy sessions (both individual and family), psychiatric treatments involving both therapy and medication and everything else we could think of.</p>

<p>So far, the things we have found helpful are the following:</p>

<p>1) Keeping our own admittedly very high expectations in check. He is a perfectionist by nature and is very easily frustrated when things do not turn out just so. When frustrated, he will quickly give up rather than produce something that he considers inferior, but that would probably earn a solid B+ or A- from most teachers. As a result, his two most frequent grades are A+ and 0. Trying to push him along, whether in doing school work or in simple things like getting dressed in time to catch the school bus, just gets him flustered and makes him go even slower. He has honed passive aggression to an art form and it takes a conscious effort on my part to back off and not escalate confrontations, but we are both better for it. He already puts more pressure on himself than is healthy, so he does not need a whole lot more from his parents. </p>

<p>2) Finding the right professional help. It took well over a year for us to find a suitable psychologist and psychiatrist for him and to get him on the right combination of therapy and medications. He is fighting depression and ADD, and only in the last month or two has he shown any improvement. Your son may or may not be in need of this, but if things get worse it is something to keep in mind.</p>

<p>3) Engaging with him in some physical activity that he likes. Whether it be shooting baskets, playing a board game, throwing a baseball back and forth or playing cards, he will open up and express his feelings far more readily when doing something than when just sitting around talking. It sure helps to know what is bothering him before we set about trying to help him solve problems.</p>

<p>4) Having him declared eligible for special services at school. The jury is still out on this one, because he has just been declared eligible and we are now working on formulating an action plan. We are talking about things like getting him into a course that is aimed at improving his study skills and organizational skills, giving him extra time at school to work on assignments with some guidance available, reducing homework in cases where he obviously knows the material, giving him assignments early and allowing him extra time to complete them without a late penalty.</p>

<p>Right now, he seems like he wants to go to college but his current grades will likely keep him out of anything other than the local county college. I am hoping that he can pull himself together in the remainder of this year then put in a reaonable junior year. Perhaps then one of the Colleges That Change Lives kind of schools might take him on.</p>

<p>Any advice from other CC’ers who have faced these challenges would be highly appreciated.</p>

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<p>BassDad. This sounds EXACTLY like my kid!!! I’ve noticed he throws things out that aren’t “perfect” and he is also a big time worry-wart. In fact, he has an ulcer :(<br>
It’s hard for me to think of him as ADD because our oldest son was clearly ADD—to the point where he could not even sit through a movie (even one he picked out himself!). Our youngest is not this way at all, although I’m guessing it could be that his mind wanders if the subject matter doesn’t interest him, as Northstarmom said. </p>

<p>Thanks for all the suggestions and words of encouragement so far!</p>

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<p>You could also be talking about me, except I’m a girl and a frosh in college (I wonder why I always seem to be an exception by my gender?) It seems like most of the time to do any work I have to be in complete quiet – like in the library – or having enough adrenaline from fear of failing the class that I’ll finally write that paper or cram for that Russian test.</p>

<p>I don’t know if it’s frustration – in my case it’s fear of failure. Some kids identify with their intelligence, like I do, which is very dangerous because any failure, no matter how small, erodes that identity. The only way to avoid failure is to not try.</p>

<p>And I’m currently in treatment for anxiety and depression, so I second that it should be something to look into.</p>

<p>I’ll be watching this thread to see if any advice from a parents perspective could help me.</p>

<p>PS: Yes, I also was reading Tolkien when I was ten. It’s a shame that there were never advanced reading classes offered, only math.</p>

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<p>There is a great book called When Gifted Kids Don’t Have All the Answers that I would recommend. (I could tell you the author but I’ve loaned out my copy to another teacher currently.) It addresses a lot of these issues such as fear of failure and perfectionism. A few others I would recommend are Helping Gifted Children Soar and So They Say My Child is Gifted. A book specifically on perfectionism is Perfectionism: What’s so Bad About Being Too Good? Again, I’ve loaned ALL of my social-emotional gifted books to another teacher so I can’t give you authors off of the top of my head. If nothing else, reading this type of book is therapeutic because it lets you know you are far from alone.</p>

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<p>Screenname,</p>

<p>Thank you for a very insightful post. Yes, it could be fear of failure in his case as well. He seems to have no fear at all of getting a failing grade in a class by doing none of the assignments, but fear of doing something wrong on a specific assignment may be at the root of what looks to us like frustration.</p>

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<p>a friend has a similar child. His fear of doing well also extends to the fact that if I do well they will expect it of me and that expectation is so anxiety producing that the child would rather fail.</p>

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<p>All of the below is like S, the gifted one who was just diagnosed ADD.</p>

<p>"He is a perfectionist by nature and is very easily frustrated when things do not turn out just so. When frustrated, he will quickly give up rather than produce something that he considers inferior, but that would probably earn a solid B+ or A- from most teachers. As a result, his two most frequent grades are A+ and 0. Trying to push him along, whether in doing school work or in simple things like getting dressed in time to catch the school bus, just gets him flustered and makes him go even slower. "</p>

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<p>That (and Northstarmom’s S) actually sounds a lot like me. I do well on standardized tests but I have major issues procrastinating and I get worried that I will do something badly and am almost unable to do it.
I’ve been told that I can either have mild ADD or anxiety and taking anxiety pills ~could~ help.</p>

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<p>You know, I’ve been thinking this thread over. Your son is in 6th grade, he’s clearly learning a lot, can you just let the homework thing go for a while? Will it keep the school from promoting him to the next grade? (In most schools, it won’t; in some, it will.) Can you work with the teacher to make his homework more interesting to your son? Instead of trying to bend your son, can you make the system bend?</p>

<p>One reason I ended up sending my son to boarding school was that I was truly sick of having to hassle him about homework and grades. The best school I could find for him–one with very little graded homework and a lot of flexibility about actual class attendance–was a boarding school. But we ended up doing that search because his school was unbending (once he got to HS) and so was he. Your son is in middle school, and the school may be willing to be flexible for a few years.</p>

<p>You might want to consult an educational psychologist, who can help you deal with the school.</p>

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<p>dmd77, yes I have talked with his teacher and she is wonderful, completely understands that he is bright, etc. She is going to have him do individual reading projects (along with about 3 other kids in the class).
I am concerned, though, that he may eventually have a teacher or teachers who won’t be so understanding. As I said to another poster via PM: there are things in life we all have to do that aren’t necessarily “fun” or “interesting” (taxes come to mind :stuck_out_tongue: ). I mean, I’d like a balance for him. No, I don’t want him bored out of his mind, but at the same time I don’t want to teach him that he doesn’t have to do it if it doesn’t interest him…if that makes any sense. </p>

<p>BTW, he is at a magnet arts elementary school, although he didn’t test to get into it; it’s just a public school w/ a slightly different curriculum—they learn foreign language from K on up, more musical choices (he’s taking bagpipe!), dance, etc. The main reason I wanted this school for him was because it’s k-6, rather than having him go to middle school (6-8 here). He’s struggled w/ homework completion since forever and I knew middle school would only get worse in that dept.</p>

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<p>God only knows what goes on in our kids’ heads. Maybe some of it is perfectionism or ADD. Last Spring my D announced that she was going to meet her goal of never studying in HS. It seems that years earlier she had decided that it was ok to do “homework” and to complete assignments, but she was not going to study. We always wondered how she was able to get everything done so quickly. We encountered similar, bizarre logic regarding the SATs. She did a minimal amount of prep, took the exams and scored considerably lower than we expected. That was it. Somehow she did not think it would be fair to study and retake them. At least she appears to be outgrowing some quirks. She is definitely studying in college. Also, she just got back an exam, did not like one of the scores and talked the prof into a few more points.</p>

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<p>Another question for those of you with kids like mine: </p>

<p>What does their bedroom look like? Mine is a real packrat…every surface in his room (nightstand, dresser, etc) is COVERED with little trinkets and legos and watches and whatever. I wonder if that is common or if they range from cluttered to neat-freaks?</p>

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<p>We have a neat freak. Or at least had one. At home, her room was always in perfect order. Based on last month’s visit to her dorm room, I would say she has changed.</p>