Unwanted College

College Search & Lists
41

OP, are you a new Junior? be prepared for the work to kick up a notch this year- a lot of straight A students find Jr year the first real challenge to keep those marks.

Remember also, that - to a parent- nothing says ‘not mature’ like a kid stamping their (actual or metaphorical) feet and saying “I am mature”.

You have a strong sense that your hard work and good grades entitle you to your college of choice. Lots of posters have pointed out that having a family that can - and will- pay for college is something to be genuinely appreciative of. So, start there: Mom & Dad I am really grateful that you have been saving for years so that I can go to college. Then STOP talking…

…and spend the rest of this academic year showing (not telling) your parents your maturity: keep your academics up, shine in your ECs, and work hard on a few of the things that your parents see as proxies for maturity. These vary a lot by family, but can include things like:

= doing your expected chores without fussing / needing reminding- and then doing a bit more;
= not squabbling with siblings;
= handling a challenge (such as a big disappointment or a significant disagreement- with maturity;
= showing good self-care (sleep, hygiene, eating, etc);
= showing good time management (being on time, being on top of schoolwork deadlines

Those are examples- but you know what things your parents will like to see. Treat this as a project that you are doing quietly for the next 9 months- b/c part of the ‘showing’ is that it’s not a one-off, it’s the growing-up-in-front-of-their-eyes you.

More things you can do on the way to figuring out your college path:

=> Figure out what you are going try (to) do next summer: you say your parents won’t “let you” get a job- what do they want/expect you to do over the summer? what do you want/hope to do?

=> Come spring (with a semester of Jr year grades, and maybe some standardized testing), sit with your CC and talk to her/him about colleges: how much you are likely to be able to apply from your BF funds to OOS colleges? what colleges does s/he suggest that you could afford with BF and could be admitted to?

=> Do some research on what you really, really want from your college experience. Right now you are looking at UF v Brown- two really different places! What is it- besides the famous name- that you love about Brown? Look for other colleges that offer those elements. Work on building a list of colleges that won’t cost more than UF (using BF $) that you like.

Even with perfect grades and amazing ECs, Brown is a long shot: 92+% of their applicants - almost all of them smart, hardworking students like you- are rejected. Your parents know this. Your best shot at ending up with a college path that you are happy with is doing the work to come up with responsible, viable, realistic plan. It could end up with you at Brown, UF or a college that you haven’t even thought of yet, but the process of figuring out what you are really looking for, and then finding ways to get as much of that as possible, will ensure that you can be genuinely satisfied with whatever the final outcome is.

42

The college admissions process is complicated enough for ordinary, middle-class families who are in the “donut hole” when it comes to financing what they believe are their dream schools. Having parents who are divorced complicates it even further. And, having a non-custodial parent who seems to be making all the decisions makes it even more complicated.

You have your job cut out for you, but it’s not hopeless As a sophomore, you have a ton of time to do a number of things. The first thing is to expand your list of reaches. Brown’s a great college, but there are dozens of places around the country that could give it a run for its money. Have you looked into UF-Sarasota?

Secondly, get to work on those ECs. Show what you are capable of doing outside of class. It might even affect how your parents view your maturity.

Another thing to do is read this thread - it could take you the next two years to get through it all:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/52133-schools-known-for-good-merit-aid.html#latest

43

@collegemom3717 this student just began their 10th grade high school year.

So…this student won’t have junior grades for quite some time.

The rest of your advice is spot on.

44

@“aunt bea” Good grief…give the kid a little validation. The OP, quite understandably, is disappointed at the prospect of living at home and attending the state school, and is asking for options. Instead the OP is being lectured and told to be grateful. The kid, who is all of 17 or 18 years old, deserves a break.

@vrmeenrajan It’s good you’re starting this process early. I recommend you look into colleges that offer merit aid as you might not qualify for financial aid. Even though your dad doesn’t have guardianship, if he’s legally your dad, he will need to be included in financial aid calculations (there are some very rare exceptions). I went through the same thing myself, with my daughter’s father who lives in another state and only sees her twice a year. His income had to be counted which meant no financial aid. Look into this very carefully before making assumptions because you don’t want to be taken by surprise. Most of the top private colleges require the CSS as well as the FAFSA and they won’t award aid above what they believe your parents can pay. Even though you may not be able to attend the college of your dreams, I hope that you can find other options that will make you happy and that work for your parents financially. Best of luck to you!

45

If you spend more time with your mother than with your father, then for the FAFSA you will only need her financial information. (If she remarries, you will need her spouse’s financial information for the FAFSA as well.) The two of you can sit down and run your numbers through the FAFSA formula and see what that EFC looks like now and use that as guidance looking ahead. https://ifap.ed.gov/sites/default/files/attachments/2020-08/2122EFCFormulaGuide.pdf

Each college and university has a Net Price Calculator on its website. Many of the NPCs at the websites of places that require the CSS Profile for the financial aid application don’t work well for families like yours where there has been a divorce. So read the questions carefully to see if there is enough detail so as to give you a good prediction about an aid package.

46

I’d say, rather than expanding the reaches, maybe you meant expand the matches and safeties.

Potential, that is, at this point. Fact is, early 10th grade offers little basis on which to be either choosing reaches or assuming one is already “better than” the competition. OP should get a good college guide book.

47

Doesn’t matter, if the parental restriction is that UF is the only acceptable college.

48

I disagree. Two years to mature, do the right research, and grow. This is far from the 11th hour. There is already confusion in the two threads, about how financial aid works- or not.

Many, many parents insist on a state public option- or set financial constraints to match what that costs. That’s wise.

But the chance for solid $$ from Brown or any generous college (assuming OP qualifies for aid) still hangs on getting admitted. That’s not about confidence in soph year. It has more to do with getting properly informed, realistically assessing, how one works toward a solid goal. No cart before the horse.

49

The options were for her to check prices, show maturity, perhaps start at home and and later talk to parents about transitioning.

What would you advise her to do if her parents are saying: “we’re funding UF”? @GoldPen, What’s the solution? The option? If Mom and Dad can’t or won’t pay for those schools, and she doesn’t qualify for a full ride (these really don’t exist), what are you suggesting? She doesn’t have enough money to self-fund. How will she fund her transportation there or health insurance which are not covered by merit or need funding. Her parents ARE NOT obligated to fund her college education, yet they are doing just that.

We’re hearing from her that she deserves Brown or Ivies. I heard that line from countless of students at my high school.

She’s a sophomore/10th grade and has not hit the crux of her AP work, the balance of her EC’s, and possible future PSAT/SAT/ACTs. She has no grades yet for her sophomore year. Essays will come in during 12th grade with more AP’s and EC’s.

She didn’t do the research but instead asked about funding for the ivies and misrepresenting her financing to an ivy school (fraudulent):

Right now, her focus should be on grades and schoolwork because spending a lot of time on trying to get out from under her Father’s thumb is going to cause unnecessary stress for all parties. What are her options @GoldPen?

50

I do think right now that OP is a young teen annoyed with her parents. I have a HS sophomore (15, cant even drive yet). I am in the exact same financial/divorce situation as her parents (even about the same salaries she has posted). I have my kids more but their dad makes 3 times my salary.

I love and adore my kids more than life itself. But at the end of the day, I dont have 40-50k extra a year to spend on college tuition. I know that to my kids it may look like I have all this surplus money or that Im spending it frivolously when they could be getting more for college but its simply not true. Example, Im going on a trip coming up. Im sure my son is thinking “hmmm, she says she doesnt have money for my college but shes going on vacation.” Well, my trip is paid for by rewards points and isnt costing me a dime. Even if I stay home for the next 2 years, I will never be able to save up the extra $160,000 OP is basically asking her parents to send by letting her go to Brown. My kids dads new car is a bonus perk from his job. I have a bit of money saved for their college funds but I too work for a college and its really hard for me to comprehend why a kid would turn down free education at a wonderful school. Why would I ever pay 160k for something I could get for 0k?

I totally get why OP does not want to live at home in college. I agree that she should just make sure to work hard the next 2 years and show maturity. In the meantime, being realistic about potential college matches may have her parents more open to a future discussion. I know she likely just used Brown as an example but as many have noted, the reality is the chances are in the single digits for acceptance and practically zero for getting any amount of financial aid which would make it affordable.

Learning that finances control their college choices is a hard pill for most kids to swallow.

51

Do you think your dad doesn’t want you to get a job because of the pandemic?

What does your mom say about it?

52

Agree completely here, especially for the OP.

However, it looks like the OP’s parents may have communicated this poorly, giving the OP an impression that they are controlling and authoritarian (“UF is the only choice” as opposed to “UF or anything that costs the same or less is ok”). Or perhaps they actually are controlling and authoritarian (although even if they were not, the OP still needs to face the financial limitations).

53

@newjerseygirl98 my dad has 2 resons for me not to get a job: 1. I need to spend time on studying rather than working. This year I have 4 Ap’s and nect year 6. It’s not as much work as it seems.
2. he thinks that teenagers should not be worrying about working or getting money

I really don’t know what my mom thinks but i think she has split opinions on getting a job

54

Do your parents have limitations on other extracurriculars (besides work) that you are allowed to do?

55

By “parents” I usually mean just my dad. But yes, my dad told me that I could not volunteer at some place, join too many clubs, and take too many AP’s. In this section, my mom is fully supportive of what I do so I really just ignore what my dad says because I volunteer at a musuem. Also he said that I’m not allowed to take more than 3 AP’s however I take 4 this year and 6 next. So yes, my dad does limit the EC’s.

56

We don’t know much about the OP’s family: for example, in some families/cultures the norm is to live at home until you are married. In some families/cultures the parent experience is that the only thing that counts for college is grades (tbf, that is true in most of the world). OP, are these elements relevant to your situation?

57

If it is only your father who wants to dictate your life, but your mother is fine with whatever work or ECs or AP courses or affordable college you want to do, and you live with your mother most of the time, have you looked into whether any college that requires only custodial parent finances for financial aid or offers sufficient merit scholarships is affordable for you and your mother without needing any money or cooperation from your father?

Obviously, this means Brown and other Ivy League colleges are still off the table because they require both parents’ finances and do not offer merit scholarships. But it could open other options besides UF if they fall within affordability without any money or cooperation from your father.

58

@ucbalumnus this student is in tenth grade. There is no way he can look to see what schools might provide him with significant merit aid in 2023 when he starts college.

And yes…the criteria and actual awards do change. We know there are schools that used to offer auto merit that no longer do, for example.

He doesn’t have even 10th grade grades. He has no standardized test scores (and yes, I think those will be back by his admissions round…at least for merit aid consideration).

Right now he has finished 9th grade only. That is dipping the pinky into high school. He will have a better sense of where he stands once he has middle of 11th grade GPA.

I don’t see anything here that would indicate a possible area of interest in college…which further confuses this search right now.

@vrmeenrajan why so many AP courses? That’s a heavy load, depending on which courses these are.

So…you go to classes, and you have a volunteer gig at a museum. But no significant ECs? Brown is going to want to see more than an academic workhorse. You need ECs to compliment your interests. What are those interests?

Plus, so much about YOU could change between now and when you actually apply to college.

Why Brown? Why?

@lookingforward doesn’t Brown do a more holistic application review?

59

6 AP’s is way too many. For the most selective universities in the country, you need 6-8 TOTAL over ALL of high school (getting A’s in all, of course). Once you pass that bar, the rest doesn’t really matter - and what differentiates you will be significant achievement in EC’s (can be at school or out of school).
Read the results threads for several colleges you’ve heard of to get an idea.

You need to make sure you have all 5 core courses all 4 years. It’s not how many AP’s but how you’ve planned your path, how strategic you’ve been in scheduling, your ability to balance your schedule and handle your EC’s commitments.

Brown is off limits financially - it uses CSS, which is another type of financial aid form than the FAFSA: it will ask about investments, houses, incomes for your mom, your dad, and any spouse…; then expect 1/3 of that (even your stepmom’s salary) to go toward college. As a result, you’ll be full pay: there’ll be no financial aid.
FAFSA universities will only consider your mother’s income, but it doesn’t help much: your EFC is the minimum you’ll be expected to pay and most FAFSA universities don’t even “meet need”, ie., give you enough financial aid to meet your EFC. You’ll need merit aid.
So, your goal ought to be becoming NMF for Florida, and that means studying very hard for the PSAT, which you’ll take in October Junior year and will have to score top 1% in Florida. You get ONE shot at it but you have one full year to prepare.

There are 3,700 universities in the US, surely there’s one that offers merit aid that you like better than UF. If you make NMF, you’ll have a lot more choices, but even if you don’t but score high, you can hope for significant merit aid at many universities.

As of now, DO NOT fight over Brown or another college with your parents. Do not talk about college at all. When your dad brings up UF, say “uh-uh”. Don’t engage. :slight_smile:
Keep your grades up, show responsibility, do a good job at the museum, get involved at school or at church/temple/mosque or for a cause or a charity.

60

Holistic, for any of the “most competitive” colleges, comes down to any and all info and impressions they form from your entire app/supp, each section. Considering the volume of apps vs small number of admits, one slip can do you in. It’s not something to be paralyzed by. Quite the opposite, you need to be aware, properly informed- and I say: strategic. There should be none of this assuming your grades or some attention in your own hs is all it takes to shine.

Then, the considerations to shape the class- eg, geographical diversity. Throw in balancing genders, trying to fill various departments, and more.

The museum work is good. But it takes a lot more. We have no idea if it relates to OP’s proposed college interests. And that’s volunteer work, not truly “community service.”

That’s the reality check. Not a diss. I personally think the fairest advice points a kid at the magnitude of the challenge, then sees if he or she picks up the ball.