I hope her March SAT score is what she hopes for.
@DramaMama2021 would Washington and Lee full ride be a possibility if that SAT score bumps up? Maybe you can explain that one.
Oh my goodness, how did I never hear of this? Thank you so much. I’m looking at it now and it looks like there are some really really solid options. That would be not awful expensive.
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Just remember…that is a discount on the tuition. You will still have room and board costs, and personal expenses to pay.
But these are more affordable, perhaps. You will need to crunch the numbers to see.
Thank you, I really hope so too. She’s never been one to have test, anxiety, but somehow she got in her head that she had to have a perfect score and it just backfired. She was very nervous on the way to the test, asked me to drive because she was so stressed. And then the Calculator thing just blew up in her face.
Even if she ends up at a school that is test optional, I hope, for her mental state, that she at least gets a score that she thinks is good. She’s never had to struggle for anything academic in her life so it was a bit of a shock for her
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The Johnson Scholarship is about more than stats; I believe leadership is important too. But @DramaMama2021 can give much more color!
Anyone who reads these forums knows how much I love Washington and Lee. That said I don’t know if it’s a great fit for an introvert. And it certainly isn’t urban. However, its financial aid is very generous. If a family makes less than $150,000 they are awarded a full tuition grant. W&L is need blind wrt admissions and meets need with no loans in their aid package.
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Take the long view here. SO much better for her to start experiencing tough academic challenges now, rather than get to college and feel out of her depth. Very low risk in the grand scheme of things- she has a bad day taking the SAT, so she takes it again. Right?
Is U Maine affordable? If so, I would encourage her to find ONE thing she loves about it. Just one. Not saying she’ll end up there, not saying it’s what she’s looking for. But most kids apply to their own state U (and many, many of them end up there, because it’s the affordable option) so changing her narrative NOW might be a really good idea.
She will have other choices. Going further away than your preferred distance opens up a bunch more colleges. But CHOOSING to embrace at least one cool thing about staying instate is a good way to acknowledge adulthood- most of us have made tradeoffs in our lives, and have learned that the sooner you find something to love about “that thing” that you hate, the happier you are going to be!
The first house H and I bought was ugly. Well constructed, in perfect condition, in a good neighborhood, and affordable even if one of us lost our jobs (which happened- I was downsized) – but every aesthetic decision the previous owners had made was hideous. Once I lost my job every plan we had for decorating went out the window but that’s when I started referring to the decor as “Mid-Century Modern” instead of “Midwestern cul de sac horror show”. Yes, it worked. And if I told you how much I miss that powder blue tile, toilet and shower stall in the master bathroom…
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I see Oberlin was mentioned - I’ll throw in Kenyon for english and nice career center. The community sounds like a nice match for your daughter - but maybe not the location. Merit and potential FA for your family. They may be open to a FA preread - it never hurts to ask.
Will add lots of study abroad programs at a good percentage schools. Kenyon has a full year at Exeter for English majors, Franklin and Marshall has a wonderful English/liberal arts program in Bath, UK and open to students from most colleges. (Advanced Studies in England). For schools on the semester system, you will find a broad selection of opportunities, as you most likely can pick outside programs - just need to confirm credits and FA transfer.
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When I was first reading about what your D wanted and your trip to westerm MA, I first thought of Clark, which I know has been mentioned a few times.
As soon as I read this, I immediately thought of Drew, which someone else mentioned upthread. It’s in a cute town about 45-50m out of the city, but easy access to the city. Additionally, there are options for semesters or years in the city, and they really take advantage of the proximity there.
Another school that she may want to consider, particularly if diplomacy is something of interest, is Seton Hall. They’ve got a strong program, are even closer to NYC and have a lot of options that take advantage of their connections with the UN and NYC, and they give generous merit aid to strong students.
Furman and Wofford are two options that you may want to have your D consider. They both give good merit and would be interested in a strong applicant from Maine and are in the Spartanburg/Greenville metro. Speaking of schools seeking to attract strong students from around the country, Trinity U. in Texas could be another contender. It’s about 2500 undergrads in San Antonio, so definitely a more urban experience and warm weather, but definitely getting further from home.
I will second (third, whatever) the suggestions of Agnes Scott and Goucher. Agnes Scott is in a walkable, attractive area of Atlanta. I don’t know if Roanoke is as big of a city as your D wants, but Hollins is a woman’s college with a strong reputation for its writing program and would also be very interested in your D.
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So many good suggestions! Thank you!
I am open to her traveling a ways away I just am not thrilled with the idea lol. I also really do not want her to end up in the Bay Area. Long story and would fill a book. And a soap opera. And eventually a true crime podcast.
One thing my daughter had brought up is school overseas. We’ve had 10+ years of exchange students so she’s got friends and “sisters” all over the globe who tell her how amazing their schools are. So I’m open to that as well. Especially if flights are direct from Boston (priorities!)
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There are few affordable options in the Bay area so not to worry!
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Seconding Kenyon and Oberlin if you’re willing to look at Ohio schools. Both are excellent for English and both give merit aid. Kenyon also offers an opportunity to gain publishing experience at the renowned Kenyon Review:
@L_Abbott your biggest concern is the costs. Many of these colleges are really good choices for your daughter and her studies, but most don’t give full rides to many students. You know what loans are like for the long term…you mentioned that you are just now paying off your own college loans. Do you want your daughter to be doing the same?
I’m going to 
that her SAT score improves significantly which could open some doors for more merit aid, or acceptances to more generous colleges…or both.
Has she tried the ACT? Some students do better on the ACT than on the SAT…just food for thought.
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I think we’ll be looking at ACT if March SAT does not show a big jump.
I think it’s inevitable it’ll go up. But the question is how much.
So let me make sure I understand.
You have a “desired” cost of $30K - but you need to borrow it all. You are not cash flowing any personally now.
So I go back to - how will you afford $1200 a month for 10 years - and that’s just $100K - but you need to borrow $105K to net $100k. And that’s less than $30K a year.
Just making sure I understand that - because it’s going to be your loan, not your daughters. She will most likely not be able to pay it back - and then what if she wants or needs to go to grad school?
So what jobs/salaries do English majors make?
At UNC, in 2023, yes 84% of English grads were employed at 22 places at an average $46,500 salary but a Median of $41,000 - so half are making less than $41K - from a top school.
Cornell had a median $55K but with 22 kids in the NY metro area. No other metro area had more than 2.
Purdue an average of $48,619.
So what types of jobs - here’s what Kenyon shows for English majors (they list this but no $$)
- Litigation paralegal, Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison, New York
- Program analyst, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, Maryland
- National organizer, Earth Day Network, Seattle
- Assistant, State of Florida, Federal Policy Officer of Governor Jeb Bush, Washington
- Assistant literary manager, American Place Theater, New York
- Editorial assistant, Tate magazine, London
- English teacher, Carlisle School, Martinsville, Virginia
- Press associate, Kennedy Center, Washington
- Editorial assistant, Carnegie Mellon University Press, Pittsburgh
- Analyst, Deloitte Consulting LLP, New York
- Teacher, Teach for America, Miami, Florida
- Teaching intern and coach, Northfield Mount Hermon School, Mount Hermon, Massachusetts
- Deckhand, Sea Education Association
- Financial analyst, Wells Fargo, Palo Alto, California
- Publicity assistant, Penguin Group (USA)
- ICM Partners talent agency, Los Angeles
- Intern, Laura Gross Literary Agency, Boston
- Editorial intern, Oxford University Press, New York
- English teaching assistant, Fulbright Fellowship, Various countries including Mexico, Turkey, Jordan
- Intern, GREY Advertising, New York
- Teacher, Teach for America, Tulsa, Oklahoma
- Editorial intern, Norton Critical Editions, New York
- Episcopal Service Corps, New Haven, Connecticut
- Resident, Urban Teachers
- Columbia Publishing Course, New York
- Elementary teaching fellow, KIPP Columbus
- Secondary school teacher, Teach for America, New Mexico
- Princeton in Asia, Chiang Rai, Thailand
I just want to ensure you understand the challenge - because i’ts most likely you will be paying this loan - not your student. Someone making $50K in NYC is getting help from their parents, not supporting themselves.
So how do you set up a cost search?
First is, you need colleges that will 100% hit your budget.
These won’t since your budget really is $0 - but let’s take a look at possible low cost.
This may be the New England Exchange Schools that @Mwfan1921 listed above. You pay 150% of in-state.
Where can you study English ? Add another $15-18K for room and board. And don’t forget annual inflation. These are the schools listed for English with the approximate tuition.
Central Connecticut State University [F] $16,550
Eastern Connecticut State University [F] $16,624
Massachusetts College of Liberal Arts [F] $12,400 - and has a lower R&B of $14K
Southern Connecticut State University [F] $16,900
University of Massachusetts Boston [F] $27,000 - so no way
University of Massachusetts Dartmouth [F] $21,155 - so no way
Vermont State University [F] $16,000
Westfield State University (MA) [F] $12,700
It doesn’t sound like it would work based on assets but you can look at questbridge.org which lists a $65,000 or less family salary but there’s no hard limits. These are full rides from colleges looking for low income families.
Maine doesn’t appear to have a low income program per se but has the Maine grant where you can get $2,500 a year or free community college.
There’s a few schools that will match U Maine’s tuition cost if you meet their qualifications - Ogelthorpe in Atlanta - so they use $13,226 as tuition. it’s called Flagship 50 but you need a 3.8 GPA and 1400 SAT or 30 ACT. Hendrix assures U Maine tuition with a 3.0 It’s a fine school in Conway Arkansas.
Then you have colleges that flat out will hit your budget - and I’ll use $30K but that’s too high.
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W Carolina is low 20s all in. It and three others are NC Promise schools.
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Centra Michigan doesn’t charge out of state tuition. It’s $27K a year but you’d get $6500-$7500 off - if a 3.95 or higher $7500 - so that’s $20K all in.
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If she can get the SAT to 1420 - so that’s a big lift, U Alabama would be $20K all in - or a 32 ACT. They’ve even awarded this to people with less but this is auto merit.
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Others like Ole Miss or Mississippi State would be inexpensive - and Ole Miss is a highly rated English program.
So those are you - assured.
Then you can look at Meets Needs Schools - and this is hard - because you need to run the net price calculator at each. I’m putting the link below of schools to look at.
Some schools - Rice, W&L and more will say - if you earn less than this, you’ll get this free but a couple things:
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They always disclaim - assuming normal assets. It sounds like you might have significant assets.
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These schools are hard admits.
Next you look at schools that “could” get you there. Many schools have full rides or free tuition - but know getting these are Hail Mary’s or really hard.
- W&L has the Johnson
- SMU the Presidential
But there are less competitive schools. Get a 30 on the ACT or 1360 on the SAT and Troy U will give you tuition and housing - but you have to apply - so it’s not automatic. Vanderbilt, Emory, WashU and more have these types of programs.
So here’s the reality-
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Smart kids are everywhere so your student might be tops where you are - but even at regional campuses, many will be simialr or even more.
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Some schools are test optional yes - but that doesn’t mean not having a test is getting you in. So sure you can dream Yale - but 82% submitted tests and others that didn’t likely included athletes at a high percentage. And the 25th percentile in writing was a 740.
Many schools are adding back in the testing requirement - but Vassar is one to look at as they have a low % taking for a high profile school. Tufts is another. Both meet need so run the NPC.
But these schools are going to be very difficult - any of these high levels.
So it’s budget, budget, budget, because when you don’t have the money, you have to make tradeoffs.
Now - since she likes urban - who else:
Pitt - no
College of Charleston - no - but if your daughter raises her score, she can potentially become a Charleston Fellow or International Scholar. My daughter is this and has free tuition via endowed scholarships
VCU - unlikely
Minnesota - no
So you have to be realistic, environmentally.
Now - the other thing - who is strong in English - it’s likely schools you haven’t thought of:
Sewanee - meets need - run the NPC
U of Iowa - won’t meet costs but check it out
Ole Miss - is $34,500 tuition room and board. Get a 30 ACT or 1360, get $12K off. Go higher and it can get up to $28,440 off - so now you’ve got a real great cost. I put their merit table below. Note - many don’t superscore for these.
I urge you to be realistic with your daughter. What you are wanting to do is not sustainable - not for you, not for her, and you don’t want to start life strangled financially.
There’s nothing wrong with community college. There’s nothing worse than the family finding itself in a bind. I had a college friend who came to Syracuse for two years. Her parents sold the house so that could happen. Guess what - after two years, they couldn’t afford to send her anymore.
The best thing you have going for you is you are from Maine - schools will seek that - but focus on the low cost schools and be open to less competitive schools. A Yale - sure try one or two like it - but they’re very unlikely.
Finally - you might look at Starbucks - they’ll pay for you to get an English degree at Arizona State - so you work and they cover college. Target has a similar program. These are online, not on campus.
Best of luck.
Here’s Every College That Offers 100% Financial Aid · PrepScholar
80 Colleges With Full-Ride Scholarships · PrepScholar
Office of Financial Aid | NR Fresh Merit - Office of Financial Aid
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Thank you for all of this, so much good information here. I am going to be putting together a list of what I can afford for her so that she can narrow it down to where she wants to go from that list instead of vice versa, which is pretty much how it’s been going.
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Just want to Nth the Wheaton suggestion. I call it the Kirkland Signature of SLACs, so many of the features of the more expensive ones, but more affordable and more ‘regular’ kids, academically. My D24 loves it, and has great aid.
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Oh thank you for the suggestion, Wheaton looks great. I’m going to add it to our tour list, hoping to get to the Boston area as soon as I can find a day when tours are offered, and there is no school in session. That’s a tough one. D26 is adamant about not missing any school if possible.
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B4 you start going everywhere, run the NPCs. Many schools have great merit but it doesn’t mean it’s great for you.
Rhodes, Kalamazoo, Depauw, and more may be great. But great May mean $40k etc. an into just got $19k at Rollins near Orlando. Stetson is another. And do the Hofstra NPC. You can put in gpa and test score and it will give you an amount.
Union near Albany meets need and several recent posters have been beyond pleased - one getting tuition and the other saying it beat the NPC by $15k although you couldn’t know that until one got accepted.
It’s fine to go see schools but kids tire - some after 5 or 8 or 10 because all info sessions are the same etc.
So go to schools for official visits where you going is possible. Maybe it’s Wheaton but if it’s going to be $40k, no reason to go etc.
It has promise but most it says fall in the 35-40k range which is too high. Hence the NPC.
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Good call. They estimate a pretty high cost. Interesting how some NPC ask a whole different set of questions than others.