<p><a href=“What does LizzyM mean? | Student Doctor Network”>http://■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/threads/what-does-lizzym-mean.1112729/</a></p>
<p>LizzyM said:
</p>
<p><a href=“https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/mcat/mcat2015/admins/scores/”>https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/mcat/mcat2015/admins/scores/</a></p>
<p>scroll down and click on pdf link to “prototype score report” for example of new MCAT total score percentile </p>
<p>Any comments?</p>
<p>Here is the old table:
<a href=“https://www.aamc.org/students/download/361080/data/combined13.pdf.pdf”>https://www.aamc.org/students/download/361080/data/combined13.pdf.pdf</a></p>
<p>It looks like the prototype percentile was made up. It is really hard for them to come up with percentile charts for a couple of years until they have scoring histories for the new and adjusted sections. They are playing with some new questions in experimental sections but that is no way to come up with a percentile since no one has practiced with similar questions yet and many may not have any idea about the correct answers yet.</p>
<p>On the other hand, the suggested method by LizzyM seems to work when the students are given a percentile on a real exam. Too bad LizzyM does not read CC but I came up with a new way to comeup with the same equation a few months ago on CC and she could really use it! 
</p>
<p>If I remember correctly, I was suggesting coming up with the 56 point score, using a reducer to get to a 45 score.</p>
<p>Essentially it would look like this. Modified MCAT score to continue using the old formula is</p>
<p>(new MCAT score - 472) *45/56 </p>
<p>However, if percentile is more of the determining factor than the actual score, may be having real percentile chart for the new MCAT score is a better choice.</p>
<p>My comments only is that I see that GPA is favored more (the opposite of what is said in OP).
Here is my reasonnong.
It really does not matter if GPA is out of 4.0 and MCAT is out of 45.
What matter is that it is relatively easy to achieve 4.0 in UG (one just needs to do a homework. And if in doubt in regard to personal ability, just do not have an engineering major)
It is extremely hard to achieve an MCAT score of 37+. One basically needs to be an avid reader to achieve required high score in Verbal section. Many points in other sections are simply not covered in UG, again one might need to have some advanced degree to get a high score in these. My D. (GPA = 3.98) was very very happy with her MCAT score of 35 which she was able to achieve strictly because of her verbal score somehow (accidently?) was the same as her highest verbal practice score, which simply is a fluke and did not happen in other sections at all. Her highest practice score was 37, she could not improve her verbal beyond consistant 9-11 during several months of preparation, she simply does not like to read novels and is not interested in politics/econ, while the most topics are around this type of discussions. If they were around music (as one example), she would be in much better position in regard to a verbal section.
There are many people who are in the same type of situation in regard to standardized testing. These people tend to score higher in medical board exams as there is no verbal section there (finally!!!). D. consistantly scored lower in Reading / Verbal section of standardized testing from the early age, while her highest was Writing / English. We could not do anything about it, even speed reading classes (outside of school) did not make any difference.
So, while it is relatively easy to achieve a college GPA of 4.0, it is not possible to come anywhere near the highest possible MCAT score. </p>
<p>Miami, you need to stop assuming it is easy to get a 4.0. At most of the top schools,a 4.0 Is NOT easy or the norm…it is rare.</p>
<p>^^ Exactly, MDP, your D is a super achiever, she deserves to get into her top med school by applying out of a BS/MD. But how many kids can get 3.98 and 35 in their profile? Even in your D’s BS/MD program, she was the only one achieve that stature. So you cannot compare everything to your D and make a recommendation or judgement on a GENERAL subject like LizzyM. In this thread:</p>
<p><a href=“Is GPA more important than MCAT in med school application? - Pre-Med Topics - College Confidential Forums”>Is GPA more important than MCAT in med school application? - Pre-Med Topics - College Confidential Forums;
<p>We have discussed the ins and outs of GPA vs MCAT but no one had answer my question where LizzyM’s “-1” was meant to adjust the GPA or MCAT. I would think the MCAT should be adjusted because it is only one test and a good student is easier to study for the test to increase scores than fix the GPA. The non-traditional spend 5-10 years doing GPA repair and few could succeed. </p>
<p>From SDN, I have seen MCAT closed to 30 got admitted into lower tier med schools with 3.7 ish GPA, yet my D did not even get ONE II with 33 MCAT because her GPA is 3.5… Whether that was a fluke or a norm is still debatable, but LizzyM her self seems lean in favor over MCAT and put the “-1” adjustment on the GPA. Her reasoning is that MCAT is based on total of 45 and GPA is based on 40 or 4.0x10.</p>
<p>BTW, one of the kid now is M3 in Case Western SOM I know did increase his MCAT from 33 to 36, therefore I know it is doable to fix the MCAT by studying. However D spend a whole year to boost her GPA, she had only succeeded to increase it by .15</p>
<p><a href=“Calculating Chance of Getting into Med School from LizzyM Score | Page 2 | Student Doctor Network”>Calculating Chance of Getting into Med School from LizzyM Score | Page 2 | Student Doctor Network;
<p>above is link to an old post (#54) by lizzym</p>
<p>“…The minus -1 is the fudge factor when looking at a school. GPA(10)+MCAT is your score. the -1 takes into account that a school that has avg stats a bit above your LizzyM will see you as “avg” (e.g. if the school’s avg gpa is 3.8 and avg MCAT is 33 then you are OK with a Lizzy score of 70.)” </p>
<p>" Exactly, MDP, your D is a super achiever" - Thank you, but she is not a super achiever, not one of those extrememly competitive, she believes that she is a middle of the road person who always seeks to have a balanced life. I am sorry, but she has met a crowd of super ahievers, she is staying away from this intense crowd, she does not belong there.</p>
<p>…actually, this is exactly what I am saying that it is near imposible to achieve MCAT pf 37+, so it is pretty irrelevant to say that MCAT is calculated out of 45. 45 is in the sky. coming down, we can safely say that most will have score below 37. And out of this crowd, there will be very many with the GPA of 4.0 or slightly lower.
There was good number of Summa Cum Laude’s in D’s pre-med crowd in Honors college in Departnment where the cut for Summa was 3.96 (D. barely got it with 3.98). Vast majority of these graduated in 4 years with vairous combo’s of major(s)/mainor(s), at least one had triple majors. This is just to rest at peace the notion of super achiever, we do not have those in our family, period, having all As is a norm, nothing special. Even my 13 y o GrandS understands that, his comment : “…just doing my homework”
From what I see, since there is no way that MCAT is out of 45, more like out of 37, while GPA is out 4.0, GPA has more value in LizzyM - basically, GPA = 4.0 is much easier to achieve than MCAT score of 38 (I hope there is some kind of statistic on internet to prove, but I am not big on seeking this info)</p>
<p>^ You made my point @MiamiDAP. You say there were a good number in your D’s crowd who got Summa, that is not the norm at top schools. Getting all a’s is NOT as casual as you say. Google any elite school and 4.0, you will see that there are years where there is not a single 4.0 graduate. I guess Miami of Ohio got all the perfect kids. :-t To continually preach how easy it is to attain a perfect GPA is ludicrous. </p>
<p>Agreed, 4.0 s are not easy at most schools. Both Ds attended a small, rigorous liberal arts college, known for grade deflation. Add to that they have +/-s; a 92 in a class is a 3.67 at Ds college, but a 4.0 at all our state schools. At orientation for older D, the president stated to parents, so they wouldn’t be shocked at lower GPAs than they were used to from high school: “> 80 of your children graduated from high school with at least a 4.0. Four students (out of a class of about 700) graduated from here last year with a 4.0.” I looked, and not one of those 4.0s was a science major. In fact, as I mentioned in another thread, because of the difficulty, one of our state med schools adds .5 to the GPA of students who graduate from Ds school. </p>
<p>So saying getting a 4.0 is easy in general is not realistic. </p>
<p>Agreed. Getting a 4.0 at competative univesity is extremely difficult. I actually think getting a 37 on MCATs is easie for a good test taker. My son is a chemistry major and works really hard. He’s also really good at science. But he doesn’t have a 4.0. Got couple of A-s in a higher level science courses and some weed out classes that converted to 3.667. As for MCATs he prepped last summer but didn’t spend too much time on it. Maybe few hours a week. He got a 36. He’s a good test taker. I see MiamiDap constantly saying how easy it is to get a 4.0 and it’s just absurd. Few A-s brings it down to a low 3.9. </p>
<p>What matter is that it is relatively easy to achieve 4.0 in UG (one just needs to do a homework. And if in doubt in regard to personal ability, just do not have an engineering major)</p>
<p>That is the single silliest thing I’ve read on CC, and clearly the most singularly unhelpful piece of advice I’ve seen.
It’s extraordinarily difficult to get a 4.0 at ANY UG; thankfully it’s not required to get accepted at a medical school.</p>
<p>I went through the 2014 Convocation program of the U Chicago. In that, lists the names of all graduating class and also a list of PBK recipient. I cross referenced the 165 biological department majors with the list of PBK recipient, there is ONLY ONE came from biology department. And a PBK recipient does not have to have 4.0 and most likely that biology student is not a 4.0 due to the weed out classes.</p>
<p>In other words, NO one in U Chicago biology department got a 4.0 for the class of 2014.</p>
<p>^ artloversplus, EXACTLY! Miami has a distorted view of GPA’s, and for her to continually to post that getting a 4.0 In UG is simply a matter of homework, that is sending anbunrealistic expectation to any UG’s that may re</p>
<p>Oops…^^ unrealistic expectations to UG students that a 4.0 Is the norm or is needed for med school admissions. Miami way want to consider that even though her daughter was in honors with other val’s, as we have heard, her daughter was not competing with a pool of students that were as a whole as competitive as others in elite schools. She will probabably dispute that, but whatever, numbers don’t lie</p>
<p>@artloversplus, for many reasons I don’t think you can use PBK membership as a proxy for anything.</p>
<p>FWIW, I’ll throw these numbers out there: my GPA had me outside the top 20% of students at Brown, my MCAT had me in the top 3% of test takers nationwide.</p>
<p>And PBK in particular is an academic award with an anti-science bias (in the sense that it requires many more non science classes than science classes). At Brown, many of the PBK kids had to specifically plan for it because it would be easy to miss the course category requirements. I imagine the chicago core means less planning but it’s still not an award that just represents the top students.</p>
<p>From what I understand, many of the higher ranked school kids seem to believe they have a shot any school in the nation if they make 3.8/38 cut.</p>