<p>Hey, I have been admitted into UPenn and Oxford to do Classics I. I’m a little bit in a dilemma since I’m American and although I really want to major in Classics, I’d like to come back home for graduate study. On the other hand UPenn is an Ivy and I would be “in the system.” I’m really torn between these two. Which one would you prefer? Why? Any good advice?</p>
<p>I’m not an expert on Oxford by any means, but my understanding is that Oxford and other European universities do not provide the same kind of undergraduate experience (in terms of breadth and variety of curriculum, campus life, activities, etc.) traditionally associated with American colleges and universities. This may not be relevant to your decision, but if it might be, you should investigate it further (perhaps others with more detailed knowledge of this will chime in here). You might also want to consider going to Penn for undergrad–to get a more traditional American undergrad experience–and pursuing a term or year abroad at Oxford while at Penn, and/or going to Oxford for graduate school. Just a thought.</p>
<p>Penn. Its an Ivy. *** is Oxford? Ill bet they arent part of any athletic conferences.</p>
<p>Oxford IS Classics IMO. I would choose Oxbridge or Harvard (whose Classics curriculum is modeled on Oxbridge I think) over any other school in the world for Classics.</p>
<p>^ Again, assuming that all you want to study as an undergrad is Classics. Be sure to investigate the curricular possibilities at Oxford compared to Penn. While pursuing a Classics major at Penn, for example, you can also take courses in Wharton, the Annenberg School for Communication, the School of Design, the Law School, the School of Public Policy and Practice, the Graduate School of Education, etc., not to mention the incredible variety of courses within the College of Arts and Sciences. I’m not sure that the Classics curriculum at Oxford would allow you such variety. Just something to check out, if it matters to you.</p>
<p>The US/English models are so different that you’re comparing different worlds here. Obviously Oxford will have a stronger Classics program than Penn, but this may not be the most important factor for you. </p>
<p>My opinion? Stay in America, go to Penn, spend a semester at Oxford.</p>
<p>Thanks, this helps. My question is more what undergrad degree would position me better for admission in one of the big grad schools here at home. I’ve heard US grad schools will discriminate UK degree holders and favor Ivy Leaguers. Any truth in this? On the other hand the tutorial system in Oxford seems to be very appealing if I wanted to focus in Classics. Wouldn’t this also be taken into account at admission time? In other words, what’s more valuable for a Classics PhD prospective student in the US: (1) Oxford degree (Classics immersion) or (2) Penn (Rounded Ed + Oxford semester)???</p>
<p>I don’t have an incredible store of special knowledge about this, but my strong, strong guess is that – limiting myself to the question you asked – Oxford in general would be a huge, huge plus at U.S. grad schools. There is a lingering crush on Oxbridge throughout the upper reaches of U.S. academia.</p>
<p>Now, it might matter a good deal who your tutors were, and what you actually did. Apart from the strength of Oxford’s Classics program, you are almost guaranteed to have done more impressive work there simply because you will have done more of it, and less of everything else.</p>
<p>The question you really want to ask is what others have been discussing here: Do you really want to give up the breadth and happiness of an Ivy-model undergraduate experience for the marginal leg-up on grad school admissions Oxford may give you? After all, top Classics students from U.S. colleges get into great grad programs, too. If you go to Penn, and work as hard and focus as much as you would at Oxford, and cultivate relationships with the faculty, you will probably wind up in the same (or equivalent) grad program that you would have been in coming from Oxford.</p>
<p>Let’s be honest - the real question here is why you would want to get a Classics PhD :-P</p>
<p>haha seriously… why classics instead of any of the hundreds of practical majors available?</p>
<p>^ Hey, if we have no Classics PhDs, who is going to pass down the ancient and timeless wisdom of Western culture to our children and their children, and so on? While we may have too many PhDs in general, 1 Classics PhD has the worth for humankind of at least 100 “gender studies” PhDs.</p>
<p>I shudder to think what humanity would be like today were it not for the Islamic and Catholic scholars who kept the fire of the Ancients alive through the West’s own Dark Ages.</p>
<p>Anyway, I went to Penn and it was awesome. I agree it comes down to:
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I somewhat disagree with this. The number of admitted students at most Classics programs is 3-5, and there can be upwards of 60 or 70 applicants – the vast majority of whom are extremely qualified. Tiny differences in undergraduate education can make or break an applicant.</p>
<p>If you want a second opinion, ask WilliamC. He did his undergrad at Penn, had a very high GPA and GRE, had several years of Greek and Latin, presented research at a major conference, and had great LORs from well-known experts. He completely struck out in PhD admissions.</p>
<p>I would recommend Oxford without reservation if you’re serious about Classics. I disagree that it lacks the social life of American universities. The offerings are different, to be sure, but not less. Most Oxford colleges have very active societies that organize a good many activities, and there are numerous university-wide organizations. I agree that it will not possible to take random courses as at Penn, but Oxford does offer joint honours, which functions somewhat like a double major (Classics & Oriental Studies is a popular combination).</p>
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Unfortunately, yes. We had an Oxford student attend one of the recruitment weekends at an Ivy this year, and she got more attention than the other two applicants combined (one from Penn, one from Duke).</p>
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<p>He also cited a specific weakness in his application to explain his Ph.D. rejections, and it wasn’t that he had done his undergrad at Penn (with its eminent antrho/archaeology program) or HADN’T done it at Oxford:</p>
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<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/graduate-school/523278-how-essential-safeties.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/graduate-school/523278-how-essential-safeties.html</a></p>
<p>WHHHATTT??? WHAT ARE YOU PEOPLE ON ABOUT???.. Go to Oxford man. Oxford is Oxford! The education there is amazing. Plus, you want to study classics. England is the place. For what its worth, Oxford has a SAT score cut-off (2100)!!!</p>
<p>The education you’ll receive at Penn and Oxford is quite different. (I have cousins who are alums of both schools). Research the curriculum’s and what students say about their educations. CC is not always the most accurate place</p>
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<p>WHAT!!? BLASPHEMY!! Next thing he’ll be saying that rankings aren’t the only sensible way to choose colleges either ;)</p>
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I agree with this. The difference between the Classics programs will be obvious after cursory research. Oxford’s program is more comprehensive, more in-depth, and has more to offer. Penn’s Classics program is good, but Oxford has the largest and one of the oldest Classics departments in the world. Penn does not have faculty that can compete with John Boardman, Robin Fox, Barry Cunliffe, or Martin West – people who wrote the major secondary sources that you would use in courses nearly anywhere in the world. While I would certainly not denigrate other programs (including my own) by saying that Oxford is Classics, as misnomer said, in many ways it’s the epitome of a Classical education. This manifests itself even outside the classroom; for example, Oxford regularly puts on Greek plays. Schools like Penn do this too, of course, with one difference – Oxford does it in Greek.</p>
<p>Of course, it’s not at all fair to compare. Oxford requires Classics applicants to have A-level knowledge of either Greek or Latin, and Classics normally takes up most (if not all) of a student’s coursework. At Penn it would be much easier to major in Classics even coming in clueless about Greek and Latin, and Classics courses would only make up about a third of one’s total coursework, so naturally it’s not usual to go into as much depth.</p>