UPenn Vagelos Life Science Management vs Brown Program in Liberal Medical Education (PLME) vs Yale

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hello!

I was fortunate enough to be admitted into the PLME program at Brown, Yale, and the LSM Program at Penn and would appreciate some advice/help in making a decision. I am still unsure what career I want to go into but definitely something within healthcare/medicine (bio tech? med school? health consulting? health IB? vc / pe?

BROWN PLME: (~20k/yr)
PROS: guaranteed acceptance into med school, easy undergrad and freedom to explore other topics/careers during the 4 years, able to defer Alpert Med School acceptance by 1 year (maybe go into consulting or ib during this year to save money for med school, gain experience, etc), happy campus and LOVE environment, no MCAT or clinical hours or volunteering req in undergrad

CONS: still kind of expensive, alpert medical school is not an amazing med school? (from what I’ve heard..), med school might be a slap in the face because undergrad is easy, providence is a kind of small town, don’t know if i want to 100% be doctor yet, might regret taking the easy route in the future and not having a wharton degree to hang on my wall

PENN LSM (~20k / yr):
PROS: so much flexibility (graduate with wharton and life science degree), lots of advising and connections to big health IB companies like centerview etc, if i do want to go into finance side of healthcare it opens a lot of doors, Philadelphia is a bigger city, really good med school application results, can save for med school with finance job and try to get into a free/t10 med school

CONS: INSANELY difficult, busy all day everyday for 4 years grinding MCAT internships volunteering research (stuff required for med school + finance stuff required by the program), would probably need to take 1-2 gap years (would be a waste to throw away opportunity postgrad in finance), would lose my merit scholarship (Dell Scholars blacklisted UPenn), might get into worst med school than brown (I’m not a strong test taker so I’m very scared about the MCAT and not meeting minimum reqs for even brown), probably a low gpa and low mcat (my sat was a 1480 after multiple attempts), campus seemed depressed

YALE: (8k/yr)
pros: dream school for a while, would get college basically for free (10k cheaper than other options) and get 4k paid out to me as refund, flexibility and time to enjoy normal undergrad experience, LOVE the yale community, food, food, food, food, and its yale


cons: would still end up in same career as penn / brown so id be throwing away insane opportunities, not so strong stem or business program ?

i know i cant go wrong with any of the options but i just don’t want any regrets with my. choice. if anyone can correct some of my pros / cons for the colleges, talk about culture, and post-grad opportunities from these schools id really appreciate it

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Not true. Any medical school you are fortunate enough to attend is an amazing medical school
and you will be “doctor” when you graduate.

I think your biggest issue here is whether you actually want to be locked into that medical school acceptance at Brown. Your other two options would require a regular application to medical school, should you decide to do this.

So
are you sure you want to be a doctor?

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I’m not a fan of loans - but if you plan to go to med school and you have an assured path, the delta isn’t that huge. Med school is going to add another $400K of delta - you’re not getting an aid deal like you have now - unless you are fortunate enough to be admitted to one that’s free or very low cost. It’s not a meets need thing like you have today.

You say the med school is not amazing?? When is the last time you checked where your doctor went?? If someone gets into med school, it’s amazing - period - full stop. And you say med school might be a slap in the face because undergrad is easy?? hmmmm - ok - but if it’s easy there, it’s likely easy everywhere. If you are saying this because of the open curriculum, I’m not sure open means easy.

Now - you say you’re not 100% on the med school path - and that might be reason not to go to Brown. You also mention Wharton - and that again will be expensive - and can happen from all three schools. One doesn’t give you an advantage vs. another if you mean an MBA.

You note this about Brown - happy campus and LOVE environment.

So that means a lot. You have to be somewhere four years, day after day.

But you don’t have a bad choice on here - but you also want to ensure you can afford like and if that means Yale, you’ll still have endless options.

But I’m not sure why you think Brown is easier than the others, etc.

btw - I’m not sure I agree with your assessment at Penn vs. Brown - necessarily. It’s not Penn vs. Boise State, etc. You can likely get to similar firms.

My other thought - if you prefer Brown but can’t afford it, have you asked them to match Yale’s offer?

I’m not sure I understand your rationale in describing the three opportunities (a lot of subjectivity as we all have) but I’d say you’re extremely fortunate and I wish you great success - which will happen from all of the three.

Best of luck.

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You should do the clinical work, and volunteering anyway. It’s something that all good doctors should have done.

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If you don’t love finance you shouldn’t go to Wharton. And if you aren’t sure you want to become a physician, you shouldn’t go to PLME. Which leaves Yale- keeps all your doors open. To me this is a no-brainer.

NOBODY can save money for med school during a one year (or even two year) stint in finance. You won’t be working in Dayton Ohio in a $900 studio apartment. You’ll be in NY or similar and you’ll be paying eye-popping rent.

Brown’s med school is fantastic btw, but if you don’t think it is, yet another reason not to do PLME.

This isn’t even a dilemma. Go to Yale and figure things out, rather than having to map out your entire life over the next two weeks.

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I get that, but if you aren’t reasonably certain you want to be a doctor, how will not doing these things help you make that decision? I’ve told plenty of pre-med wannabees that how can you know you want to become a physician until you’ve experienced that environment? One where patients have hit you, urinated on you, spat on you and/or you’ve had to tell family that their loved one died. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Not to mention you do have to have get those experiences if you choose Brown for undergrad but decide to apply elsewhere to med school (which means giving up the Alpert opportunity.)

I agree with blossom
it sounds like Yale could make sense. But, if you think you would be happier during undergrad at Brown and like the open curriculum, go there and if you choose to not become a physician let the Alpert opportunity go and go into finance or whatever path you might find over the next four years.

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The son of friends of ours is almost done with his first year of residency. He told us recently “if anyone had told me that my first year of being a doctor would involve asking- dozens of times a day
 “when was your last bowel movement?” I would have become a HS chemistry teacher!”

OP- the purpose of shadowing, clinical hours, working with the unhoused or other medically vulnerable people is NOT to impress an admissions committee. It’s to make sure you understand what the practice of medicine is all about. You may become a pathologist, a hematologist, a psychiatrist-- and never have to spend your days dealing with human excrement or having patients throw things at you as they come down from their meth high.

But you will become a physician first, before any sort of specialization. And if it’s not for you, it’s not for you. And it sounds as though you don’t have enough information now to know if it IS for you- again, Yale is the answer!

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I’m not really sure where you get the idea that your undergrad education will be easy at Brown? It will absolutely be rigorous. And you have to complete all of the premed requirements that you normally would – and in addition to that are expected to explore in other disciplines. Happy doesn’t equal easy – it just means you’re surrounded by people who love to work hard and love what they’re working on.

As to the relative prestige of the med school – I have some good friends who went through the Brown PLME program. One is now on the faculty of Harvard Med School. So it’s prestigious enough for that outcome.

Brown may or may not be the right choice for you (and if you’re not sure you want to be a doctor, you shouldn’t lock yourself into an eight-year program), but at least you should inform yourself properly.

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Which doors does PLME close that Yale doesn’t?

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OP, your GPA might be high at brown, but the material will be rigorous nontheless, especially if you take the more challenging options (e.g. chem 330 instead of chem 100)

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Congrats, amazing options, mine applied to same one’s last year. My kid is a premed at Brown (did not get PLME). I can with certainty tell you it is not easy. Mine came from top high school, top of class, perfect test score with no prep, excellent work habits and is working very, very hard. Classes have been very challenging with rigorous in-depth exams. PLME’s have more breathing room though as they don’t have to stress about gpa to same degree.

I am not exactly sure why this “easy” mantra is passed around so much. I suppose it’s happy reputation, open curriculum, and grading policies that don’t show below a C on external transcripts. I think it’s a disservice to not push back on it though, my freshman would have lightened up first semester knowing what they know now and only taken 2 versus 3 hard pre-reps at a time. All of the kids are extremely capable and none are breezing by as the internet seems to portray.

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“In keeping with the spirit of the Open Curriculum, Brown does not compute students’ grade point averages. If you have questions about how to complete applications for external opportunities (e.g., graduate or professional school, fellowships), please consult with an academic advising dean.”

Grade Options | The College | Brown University.

Brown certainly can be rigorous academically but it is largely incumbent upon the student to “keep score”. Most work very hard and challenge themselves given the nature of the open curriculum in which they focus their studies on areas of interest.

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I’m not sure what your point is with that quote - brown does provide GPAs to grad schools, including medical schools.

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They provide transcripts they don’t in fact provide a GPA. The point was being factually correct.

I provided the link so that you can read the entire policy.

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Here is an article from several years back (my kid was unaware until he matriculated and read this). I wanted to make sure the student was aware of this peculiarity at Brown.

Flynn '20: Brown should calculate GPA - The Brown Daily Herald.

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When you apply AMCAS has you input your transcript and it will calculate the gpa. Brown is pretty straightforward. Here is link to see the many different grading systems and how it works.

https://students-residents.aamc.org/media/7761/download?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR6ieIidHi7WLPpNQBj6AiqezZOM96uuI0t2D1n4PZeLUyqh_9wxiRnd0h2bcA_aem_Ibx7ta7IiChDzXERZVSRPA

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Okay, allow to rephrase:

You will have lots of As relative to Bs and Cs, which will lead to AMCAS calculating your GPA as being high. Leaving aside generous grading, this is because Brown allows you to take any course pass fail, which means you can focus on getting the best possible grades on med school prereqs while potentially taking other classes P/F.

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I’d pick Brown for the direct access to med school. Imagine if you have to fight for 2% acceptance rates at top med schools 4 years from now. You can get your BS in 4 years and still do healthcare consulting or IBD.

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What did you decide? I would pick Yale since it has been your “dream” school.

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brown! realized brown had the same things I loved about yale and the only difference drawing me from brown was its ‘rankings/prestige’

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Congrats! You will love Providence! and Brown of course

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