Hello. I am a rising senior thinking of going UPenn ED or Georgetown (and a few other schools) EA. I am likely going to be pre-med and I know I will need to be above average in my class (GPA and MCAT) to get into medical school. Both schools are obviously great, and I am not going to kill myself working to get a 4.0, but is there one school that will be easier to stand out at for a pre-med student? Or is the major you pick at either school going to make a bigger difference? Thanks.
Both schools are going to have a good number of 3.8+ GPA 35+ MCAT students. You do not have to be above average in your class to get into medical school. As long as your GPA and MCAT are in range for your target medical schools, it does not matter if you’re average in your class, you will have a good chance at medical school. UG does not really matter for med school, unless you want to go into academic/research medicine at schools like Harvard/Yale/Hopkins. Even if that was the case, a 3.9 GPA/40 MCAT student at UPenn isn’t going to look better than a 3.9 GPA/40 MCAT student at Georgetown based on college name/prestige alone. Major does matter a bit in terms of GPA. Having a below average GPA in a major like Engineering won’t look as bad, since it is considered one of the most rigorous majors at most schools. So to answer your question, no not really. Standing out is going to be exceptionally difficult at either school. I might give a slight edge to UPenn, though. Major doesn’t matter too much for Medical school, it really matters more in the context of GPA.
Note that the above is written by a high school senior.
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know I will need to be above average in my class (GPA and MCAT) to get into medical school. B
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You need to be more than “above average” if you’re a typical unhooked traditional applicant…you need to be at the top. You need to shine. You need to get the 3.7+ GPA…both BCMP GPA and cum GPA. You need to impress your profs so that you’ll get strong LORs and good research opps.
If you’re avg or just above avg, why would a prof write you a glowing LOR??? lol. No, those will go to the students that are at the top.
There are no “passes” given by med schools if you get a lower GPA for “harder majors” (i.e. Engineering). My son was an eng’g premed, and he knew that no one was going to give him an inch just because he was a ChemEng’g major. He knew he needed top grades.
@mom2collegekids My dad went to UPenn, majored in mathematics, ended up with a 3.5, got into a pretty good medical school, and is now a well-known doctor who practiced at Memorial Sloan Kettering for 20 years and just became CMO of a huge genomics research company. Your use of the word “need” is a little too absolute. There are exceptions
@mom2collegekids In order to maintain a high GPA and such, would it be better to sacrifice going to a high-end Ivy or competitive college in order to go to a slightly less competitive (and easier) school to maintain GPA?
Or would Ivies prepare you better for MCAT, although you sacrifice your GPA a bit?
Ivies do NOT prepare you for the MCAT. No school prepares you for the MCAT. The premed prereqs are just basic science classes, nothing special. The bio, chem, ochem, and physics material is taught everywhere. It’s basic stuff.
MCAT questions are not like a science test.
Going to a slightly less competitive school will be “easier” to maintain a high GPA if you put in the work. It’s not going to be easy.
@streetking18 <<< My dad went to UPenn, majored in mathematics, ended up with a 3.5,
who practiced at Memorial Sloan Kettering for 20 years
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Anything that went on DECADES AGO when your dad was applying to med school does NOT apply in any way today. Not at all.
Seriously…do you really think the admissions process is in any way similar today??
Do you really think that your dad had as hard of time getting into UPenn as an undergrad, and then getting into med school as students do today??? Think about it.
@mom2collegekids Thank you so much for your advice!
@mom2collegekids def not the same I agree. But you’re making it seem like it’s impossible to get into medical school. And we’re not even picking a specific medical school. I’m not tryna avoid working hard in college, but my question was if there was a greater than negligible difference for prospective medical students at these schools, not whether I had to be a superstar to go to medical school
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But you’re making it seem like it’s impossible to get into medical school.
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? I’m not making it sound like it’s impossible to get into med school. Where did I say that or imply that? I said that if you’re a typical unhooked MD med school applicant then you need to be more than “above average.”
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And we’re not even picking a specific medical school.
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Don’t need to be picking a specific med school because they’re all hard to get into. They all get a high number of apps, and they only interview about 10-15%…and from that small interview group, they only accept roughly half.
Does that sound like being just “above average” is going to cut it if you’re unhooked and a traditional applicant?
The med school app process is getting tougher every year. It’s a climate where there are just too many qualified applicants for the number of MS1 seats.
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question was if there was a greater than negligible difference for prospective medical students at these schools, not whether I had to be a superstar to go to medical school
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am not going to kill myself working to get a 4.0, but is there one school that will be easier to stand out at for a pre-med student? Or is the major you pick at either school going to make a bigger difference? Thanks.
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Well, your goal should be to get an A in every class that you can.
Is UPenn or G’town easier to stand-out? I doubt that one is better than the other in that regard. But, if your goal is to “stand-out” then you’re at cross-purposes if your goal isn’t to get a very high GPA. That should be your goal. Whether you achieve it may be another matter, but your goal should be to get an A in every class.
Your major doesn’t matter so choose something that you like that you will get A’s in.
According to the Penn website: http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/gradprof/healthprof/parents.php#success
- "The average GPA of Penn applicants who are successful in gaining admission to medical school is around 3.6, and 3.5 in the sciences." That is higher than the average Penn student, but achievable.
- "Nationally, the mean score on the MCAT was 25.2 for the 2012 application cycle. Nationally, the mean score of applicants matriculating to medical school in 20213 was 28.3. The average score among Penn students was 33.9."
- "Nationally, only 43% of the individuals who applied for Fall 2013 admission to allopathic (MD degree-granting) medical schools matriculated. However, among the 317 Penn applicants (both current students and alumni) for Fall 2013 admission, 230 of them, or 73%, matriculated (76% were accepted)."
That suggests to me that your chances of getting into from Penn are good, but @mom2collegekids is probably right that it is not the easiest path, if that is what you want. Find the state school with the most grade inflation and get all A’s, do some volunteer work at a hospital, and prepare for you MCAT. Or apply to schools where you get a BS / MD in a combined program.
Alternatively, if you would find that to be painfully boring, want a more challenging environment, and are confident that you can handle the level of competition, then go for it and take on the challenge like @Mom2collegekids son did. Just understand the challenge you are up against.
Keep in mind that your interests may change in college. Only about half of those taking the MCAT apply to medical school, and many pre-meds drop out long before that. I’d estimate that no more than about 10% of (pre-)freshman pre-meds actually wind up in medical school. Careers like medicine and law are obvious choices while in high school, but students are exposed to a far greater variety of academic disciplines and career options in college.
With that in mind, be sure to pick the college you like best – regardless of whether you’re pre-med.
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Traditionally, pre-med students applied to medical school after his or her junior year. However, that has changed. Today, a majority of Penn’s applicants to medical school are alumni, not graduating seniors.
Among those who applied for Fall 2013 admission, only 29% were seniors.
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That last statement is going to really affect reported GPA…that likely includes many students who needed GPA repair…or who weren’t premed as undergrads so didn’t care if they had some Bs and Cs and then did a post Bacc and aced it.
that reported GPA also includes hooked and URM students. Non-hooked, non-URM, traditional applicants to MD med schools need to aim for GPA’s higher than a 3.5.
the devil’s in the details.
Here’s the data. I’m betting mom2collegekids is right when she says the stats looked different 20 years ago:
https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/157998/mcat-gpa-grid-by-selected-race-ethnicity.html
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And, even within those charts, you still can’t separate the traditional applicants from the non-trads…which are now often making up a good-sized portion of each MS1 class.
Spend a little time on SDN network and you’ll see a lot of non-trads telling their stories. Some started college at 18, goofed off/flunked out, then went into the work/military/medic world, grew up, and then went back to school to be premed. Some actually completed a bachelors in some area, but weren’t diligent about GPA (wasn’t important for their then-career goal), and then have to do a Special Masters Program or Post Bacc before they can apply to med school.
The earlier parts of their transcripts are often atrocious…D’s, Fs. Then after maturing, they return and ace their classes. MD schools don’t allow grade replacement, so their GPA’s still look bad or lowish…but because TIME can heal all wounds, med schools will often “hand pull” an application that they’ve been told about so that it doesn’t get auto-rejected by the first down-selection that doesn’t use human eyes. Acceptees with lowish GPAs like that are still going to show up in those data charts.
Just look at those outlier stats and ask yourself…could those likely have been traditional unhooked applicants? no. There’s a story behind each of those odd acceptees.
Between the two schools, I would go with Penn. But you should visit each and be sure you like the environment. Focus on where you would rather live for four years. You should be sure to choose what makes you happy.
@informative what makes you choose Penn?
@@mom2coIIegekids That last statement is going to really affect reported GPA…that likely includes many students who needed GPA repair…or who weren’t premed as undergrads so didn’t care if they had some Bs and Cs and then did a post Bacc and aced it.
That reported GPA also includes hooked and URM students. Non-hooked, non-URM, traditional applicants to MD med schools need to aim for GPA’s higher than a 3.5."
Well I think that you may be conflating a couple of things. As I read it, the 29% is talking about students matriculating to Penn Perelman. I doubt that many Perelman students had weak transcripts and needed a makeover.
Perelman’s admission stats are: average gpa is 3.84, and the average MCAT is 38, and the admit rate is 4.9%. Those are very strong numbers. I suspect they just took time to strengthen their application further with research or work experience. I would also suspect that the stats for students straight from UG would need to be stronger than these averages to be successful.
The 3.6 gpa and 3.5 gpa in sciences were the averages for Penn undergraduates who were successful getting admitted some medical school, which is totally different.
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Traditionally, pre-med students applied to medical school after his or her junior year. However, that has changed. Today, a majority of Penn’s applicants to medical school are alumni, not graduating seniors. Among those who applied for Fall 2013 admission, only 29% were seniors. More importantly, students who take time off are not at a disadvantage. Medical schools are pleased to admit qualified students, regardless of whether they apply directly from college, or whether they wait 1, or 2, or 5, or even 10 years before applying. Only 43% of Penn-affiliated matriculants to allopathic medical school in 2013 were going straight to medical school.
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@much2learn I do not believe that that paragraph refers to Penn Perleman (and I don’t think it’s referring to referring to matriculating, either…I think it’s referring to applicants)
I believe that 29% is referring to UPenn’s seniors who are applicants to various med schools.
Will the pre-med route be slightly less competitive at Georgetown than Upenn?