Hello, so I am was accepted to UPenn and Tufts, and I need to make a decision soon. I want to study molecular biology, and I was accepted to Vagelos MLS at Upenn, so I was heavily leaning in this direction. However, socially I am not a partier. In fact, I am quite the opposite; I have never had a beer in my life, and I pride myself on living a discipline lifestyle and making human connections over partying. You could say I fall into the category of a quirky intellectual.
So here’s my concern. I recently spent a weekend on campus with an old friend, and it literally seemed like 2/3 of the campus was high in some form. I asked my friend if this was the norm, and he told me that it was, and that if I wasn’t willing to drink and smoke that my friend group would be limited. I walked into a frat party with him and walked out within seconds due to the thick weed in the air.
I also asked many other students if there are good social alternatives, and all of their answers were the same, that “there are always people to find,” which begs the question: where are those people?
Does anyone have any insight about the party scene and what the student body values at each of these schools? Is the UPenn student body really this socially competitive/ work hard play hard, and is Tuft’s reputation as intellectually playful accurate? How ironic it is that all of these talented students, blessed with an opportunity many would die for, choose to spend their college years intoxicated rather than working to discover their true potential academically and connecting with the amazing people around them.
You are going to find college partying at both schools and really all but the most conservatively religious colleges.
“How ironic it is that all of these talented students, blessed with an opportunity many would die for, choose to spend their college years intoxicated rather than working to discover their true potential academically and connecting with the amazing people around them.”
That’s a judgey statement. I’ve never been one to engage myself but many bright people find it easy to manage both very successfully, the old “work hard, play hard”.
Op. You were there in a weekend. That’s when young people might unwind and drink or smoke some weed. It’s not going to be like that Sunday night through Friday afternoon. You’ll enjoy either.
I am not sure you would find Tufts so terribly different. You will find your people at either.
Also remember that a lot of kids experiment in college, with their freedom, with their social lives, with substances. I am not saying that you need to do everything they do, but that even they may change how they engage socially over 4 years, so it’s not like everyone has the same experience for 4 years.
Kids who went to parties to drink as freshmen went out to clubs to dance or hear music (perhaps with a drink in their hand or perhaps not) a year or two later.
In any case, substance free housing might be the way to go for you as it’ll make it easier to find your crowd.
Without passing judgement on “goodness” or “badness” Tufts and UPenn do have very different cultures.
Tufts was founded by Universalists (not to be confused with Unitarians). There was a seminary on the campus up until the 1960’s. Although Protestant, they eschewed the Calvinistic notion of predestination, the notion of the elect, and the notion that the worldly indicator of the elect was economic and social success. They also eschewed the notion of Hell and thought that everyone (not just the elect) would go to Heaven.
The associated culture was very inclusive (ultimately allowing members to simultaneously be members of other world religions) and idealistic, but the church struggled financially, and ultimately had to merge with the Unitarian church (which was associated with Harvard).
The notion of culture is complex and multi-dimensional, but I would say that the dominant culture at Tufts is not “work hard/play hard”.
Tufts culture is more like “learning shouldn’t be work” / “playing shouldn’t be hard” with a dose of “make the world a better place” idealism. Motivation is more intrinsic, driven by intellectual curiosity and finding your passion, rather than extrinsic, driven by academic or social competition. It is a culture that encourages creative non-conformity (some call it “quirkyness”) rather than competitive conformity.
In fact, there was a book titled “No Contest - The case against competition” that was written at Tufts based on a course taught in the Experimental College. If one tried to teach such a course at Penn, they would probably be tarred and feathered (or sentenced to face the firing squad) by the @privatebanker types at Penn
In contrast, Penn was recently ranked the number one “work hard/play hard” school by Business Insider. MIT was ranked number 2.
A entire book was written about Wharton’s ultra competitive culture.
The phenomenon of “Penn Face” and Penn’s “suicide problem” is well documented and some have tied it to Penn’s ultra competitive, prestige oriented culture and the perceived need to not only out-work, but to out-party everyone else. Hard partying has been viewed by some as a necessary outlet from pressure created by the competitive environment.
The Vagelos MLS program is consistent with the Penn culture - Create a program with extensive requirements, recruit a bunch of highly qualified students, then motivate them to perform by setting up a competition for a handful of full tuition scholarships.
This does not make the program “bad”, but it is not a good fit for everybody. In this case, the notion of fit revolves around personality, not ability. Competition can be a necessary motivator to some, and an unnecessary de-motivator to others.
When it comes to Tufts, there is competition, and there is binge drinking/partying (more so in the frats and some sports teams), but inferring equivalence from existence is an example of the “both sides” logical fallacy. When it comes to cultural proxies, Tufts has D3 rather than D1 athletics, it has 10% participation in fraternities/sororities rather than 30%, it feeds a lower percentage of students into Wall Street and it feeds a much higher percentage of students into the Peace Corps. Tufts has never been referred to as the “social NESCAC” and it was once included on Playboy magazine’s list of “worst party schools” - which some people might view as a good thing
You know yourself better than anyone on CC. You know the type of environment in which you are more likely to excel academically, and more likely to connect socially. Different types of people excel/connect in different types of environments. Pick the environment that is best for you, but don’t assume that it is best for everyone.
You sound more self aware than most entering freshman and will be able to find lifelong friends at either school.
I just spent 2 weekends with my Penn students and their friend. Student A is just what you would expect, work hard (overload of SEAS classes, TA, research job, Greek life…) with a full calendar 7 days a week. Student B needs to be pulled out of the lab by others to socialize and now realizes that living among similar peers helps him balance his life and attend planned social events. Intellectual rest is healthy. Student C finds the time for 11 hours of sleep while at Wharton.
With 11,000 undergrad students, Drexel adjacent in University City you will find lifelong friends at Penn or Tufts. There is no atypical student at either school. You might want to focus on whether you prefer to live in the heart of a city or the more Suburban feel of Tufts. Do you prefer the research options at one school? Curriculum? Club sport, community service? What other activities do you want to do on campus? This is usually the best way to find friends and balance your life especially if you stay during the summers for research.
@privatebanker - There is still hope for you because you spent your formative years at a reputable undergrad institution. I suspect that you were lured to the dark side by a less reputable graduate institution. We lost Jamie Dimon that way as well, but at least he could be trusted to help right the ship after the crash.
If you didn’t realize it already, you are being subconsciously recruited into the Resistance. There is no denying the power of the Force (or the Internet), so you should probably just submit right now and read the book I mentioned above
