upset parent

Parents Forum
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<p>good morning dad
first off, whoever thought you are a ■■■■■ should say sorry. I got that often in the past and it was upsetting.</p>

<p>About junior transfer, we have experience, tho our situation is bit different, GPA affected big time. Everything would show in the final transcript and counted into.
It depends on the district, state system, public/private crossover, etc so I can not answer your specific question but this is what happened to my S, now happy freshman at somewhat alternative college.</p>

<p>He was in vocational art program and finished junior year with fab GPA with very little effort because the school was that sort of place.
following summer, he had this epiphany of some kind and transferred in to more academic HS. local to local Junior transfer is not usually doable in our public system and it is another long long story how it happened.
Anyway, he was asked to repeat junior year to fit into new HS’s currculum but achievement gap was such, his GPA tanked and his college choices got suddenly very limited, as of “don’t bother doing state schools”
If he’d have stayed in the old HS, he could have gone to art strong state Us with no problem, for they’d sort students out by only numbers-GPA and SAT scores, which my S did fine, and portfolio portion was never the problem.</p>

<p>This is what I think in hindsight, for I don’t know and can’t know, since my son could be at only one college at the same time. There is no way to know pros and cons for sure.
It was a good thing he ended up where he is.
Because that rigorous HS prepared him well how to do research, write, think, deal with eccentric professors and somewhat skewed but you-just-have-to-live-with rules.
The new HS did not offer any APs for whole lot of reasons. It is not always the case but absence of AP offered does not automatically mean the school is less challenging.
I hope you have a lot of choice like we do here, and good luck.
I think we should always listen to our kids what they want to do, but parents have to do leg works to find information and go through tedious beaurocracy especially if it’s a giant public school system.
Some brilliant students will not find out about such opportunities because their parents are immigrants and no one would kindly come looking for you to tell it.
You just have to be on top of it, and ask questions until, yes, being told by officials “I wish we don’t have to see you again” I had the same bit, but that very GC became our savior as time progressed.
Everyone got some issues: teachers, GCs, superintendents and CC posters. Just have to be civil, patient and honest. Don’t take it personal, don’t point fingers.
Never give up. As long as it’s the kid who wants to learn and we want to give them best possible option, It will work out somehow.</p>

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<p>sopranomom, excellent advice. </p>

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<p>Believing that was your first mistake…but a mistake that is shared by many who do not understand that unhooked students are unlikely to occupy the bottom half of the stats profile at Ivies or other highly selective schools.</p>

<p>BTW, I thought you said elsewhere that you ASKED for your S to be placed in the most advanced STEM classes? So how was your S “dumped” into AP CS?</p>

<p>Anyway, from what you are saying, your S is doing fine in his AP classes now. His problem was with his math classes freshman and sophomore year–and correct me if I’m wrong, but neither of them were APs? So why the obsession with APs?</p>

<p>You also say that he is all set for his target school. So if the kid is doing well in his classes and is certain to get into his desired school, and you do not care about applying to any of the super-selective, lottery schools, what’s the big problem? I just don’t get it.</p>

<p>Cross posted with bears and dogs: Nope, not sorry that he seemed like a ■■■■■. I’ve decided that he is not in fact an outright ■■■■■ or a student, but the problem was that he couldn’t bring himself to tell a straight story.</p>

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<p>Dumped into AP CS in **freshman year **. Asked for son to be placed in **the most advanced STEM courses in *Junior year * **, where he is taking AP CS II (in which he has an A average). I asked after I knew son was scoring in the 700s on the SAT. What was the reason to put him in AP CS in freshman year?</p>

<p>Like I said before, I did not attend school in the USA. I have never taken AP classes. I wanted to make sure they put him in classes that lead to college and not those that led to vocational school, when I said most advanced. I didn’t know AP classes are basically college level courses. I did not want him to take five college level courses in addition to Physics and pre cal.</p>

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<p>It is VERY hard to tell stories in these posts.
have some mercy, will you?</p>

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<p>Perhaps, although this was his SAT score after finishing sophomore year.It predicted he would be reconginzed by the National Merit Scholarship program. So, I believed it would be okay for him to take high school STEM courses for college bound students.</p>

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<p>You are putting entirely too much focus on the results of the standardized testing as “predictive” of anything. fORGET the standardized tests. Why isn’t your kid doing well at class? Not doing homework? Not turning it in? Address that.</p>

<p>You’re solving the wrong problem here.</p>

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<p>Bears- like your post very much.
Here, the issue isn’t moving up, but dropping back to what seems to be a less competitive hs. A kid who maybe wants to be an engineer, dropping APCS2, in which he is getting an A. </p>

<p>I made the more competitive move a month into jr year- due to a family move. As you said, many transition issues, but a very solid experience, in the end. My new hs was rated 1-2 in the nation. Offered far more ECs and tremendous emphasis on writing skills. (Yeah, before STEM was the rage.) Accelerated classes at my old school used textbooks that the new school gave kids who were behind or didn’t easily read English (!) Have never regretted the challenge or the lessons learned. </p>

<p>In life, real life, it’s not always so important how you stumble into challenges, it’s how you respond. OP said, in another thread, that he thought a few C’s might dissuade his kid from engineering. As is often the case on CC, when one parent’s choices are so diametrically different than another’s, readers try to understand- and when the info isn’t there, they sometimes let loose.</p>

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<p>sopranomom, what grade do you teach?</p>

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<p>bears and dogs, thanks.</p>

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<p>Honestly, they really aren’t. They are high-level, challenging high school classes, for the most part, and at many schools, they siphon off most of the most motivated students so that the less advanced classes become even LESS challenging than they might otherwise be. If the guidance counselor said your son’s schedule was not unusual for the school, why question that? This is the eco-system in the school your son is attending. It was similar in my kids’ school as well. The brightest, most motivated, college-bound students gravitate to VERY demanding course schedules where they challenge and motivate one another. </p>

<p>In our school system, there are four options for many courses: a remedial level, a “regular” level, an “honors” level, and a “gifted and talented” (G/T) level. Once they get into the higher grades where AP courses become available, the AP class IS the GT level. Kids can take the AP test or not. But if they want the “most advanced” class, it’s the AP class. </p>

<p>What I find unusual in your son’s schedule is that he is taking so many science classes at the same time, not that he’s taking so many APs.</p>

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<p>Some departments of some stratospheric universities and colleges will waive their prerequisite introductory “101” class because a student took an AP and achieved a high score on the exam. So in that sense it is a college level course. But they won’t grant credits against the final number of credits required to graduate. The student just ends up being eligible for more mid-level courses during their freshman year. </p>

<p>Other departments at the same tip-top schools insist on their own Introduction to the field and won’t let an AP excuse <em>their</em> 101 class.</p>

<p>And if you end up with a lower tier school you might find a college giving credits liberally in exchange for those AP classes + exam results. </p>

<p>Again, when we talk about what colleges will do in this country, it’s all over the map. So I can see why someone can walk away with this idea: “AP’s are college level courses.”</p>

<p>Because OP appreciates hearing of personal experiences, ours went like this: S-1 attended a top-3 rated LAC that only allowed excuse from some 101 classes. Unlike most others there, he came from a h.s. that only offered one AP. He had to chug along from the beginning at every department, while as freshmen he saw others sign up for some 200 level classes. He didn’t mind much because he and they still had to achieve all the credit hours over a four-year period. D at a top-25 rated LAC that did “give credit toward graduation” and let some 101’s be excused, saw other students struggle as they began college in 200 level courses there in some departments. By senior year, a rare few graduated a semester early, but many enjoyed lighter schedule loads in senior year while they did thesis projects or interviewed at graduate school and she had to carry a full-credit load right to the finish line. All because her h.s. offered only one AP and theirs offered many! S-2, from a different competitive h.s. than his siblings, had so many AP credits that his lower-tier university let him graduate a semester early. He entered the workforce that much sooner and saved us all tuition money. He went to the lower tier uni right after junior year (because he always acts like he’s shot out of a cannon!) for an unusual major. The college courses weren’t challenging enough there, but the major rocked! So it all worked out.</p>

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<p>“It predicted he would be recogninzed by the National Merit Scholarship program. So, I believed it would be okay for him to take high school STEM courses for college bound students.”</p>

<p>You jumped to a conclusion based on an assumption [or hope?]. Regardless of why you jumped to this conclusion, NOW is the time to take Pizzagirl’s advice- forget about the ONE number on ONE test and concentrate on this:</p>

<p>"Why isn’t your kid doing well at class? Not doing homework? Not turning it in? Address that. You’re solving the wrong problem here. "</p>

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<p>And after the conference, maybe a tutor would help?</p>

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<p>No levels of instruction between academic and AP. Cannot lighten or drop load after a couple of weeks into the year. Thanks for the information.</p>

<p>I agree admission to top schools is about how well one does at taking advantage of opportunities at one’s school rather than average scores at top schools. However, don’t you think a good GC should tell a parent/ child about the average stats at top schools? Should a GC not say, this is the average number of APs at top colleges, but most students who get into top schools from our school, take more? Then, allow the parent/ child to decide what is best for them, challenging, very challenging or most challenging?</p>

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<p>I asked for STEM, because son wants to persue engineering. He basically switched a foreign language course for Comp Science II. If you are right about AP not being real college classes then I am reassured. In which case, perhaps son should be able to handle this load.</p>

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<p>I think it is reasonable for one to think a child will end up being recognized by the National Merit Scholarship Program if he has a couple of 690s on the SAT. Do you disagree? We will find out how he did on the NMQST next month. So, it is not a big deal, but I was just wondering what you meant?</p>

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<p>OP, you ask why your son’s grades are not what you would expect given his SAT scores.</p>

<p>The FIRST THING you should have done when you became concerned (after asking your son the question) was to contact the teacher.</p>

<p>WHY have you not done this very very very simple thing?!</p>

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<p>STEM has nothing to do with NMF. A student with a strong [80] CR and Writing scores, but so so math score can be a NMF. </p>

<p>What state do you live in? that is the biggest overall determining factor for NMSF, above a certain level, because there are huge differences in various state cut off levels.</p>

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<p>I disagree. For one thing, a 690 on a section of the SAT translates to a 69 on that section of the PSAT. A 69 on each section will not result in sufficient points to be a NMSF. </p>

<p>But more to the point, the PSAT is really quite a different test. There are, if memory serves, only 30 questions per section. The effect of answering one question wrong is magnified. I know kids who did very well on the SAT and not so well on the PSAT. The results do vary, sometimes significantly. My own S got an 80 on the PSAT math section, but only a 730 on the SAT math section, much to his annoyance. </p>

<p>Yes, a 690 is a nice score, and he MAY do better on the PSAT and the real SAT when taken as a junior. But it is certainly not a given.</p>

<p>Whether the AP courses at your HS are the equivalent of “real” college courses probably depends on the college to which you are comparing them. Certainly, a well-taught AP class at a good HS is going to be filled with bright, motivated kids, and may well be more interesting and more challenging than a course at a low tier college, simply by virtue of who is in the class. But in general, I don’t think you need to get worried about your son taking 5 APs unless he has no life, or he is getting bad grades. Lots of kids take 5 APs per year, and plenty take multiple sciences. (My S took AP Physics, AP Chem, AP Calc BC as well as 2 foreign language APs and AP English classes at the same time. And he’s not a STEM kid.) If I have things straight at this point, your son is now getting good grades in all of his AP classes. His grade problem was with his math classes freshman and sophomore year. </p>

<p>I’d suggest that you look into the things that everyone has suggested you look into with regard to organization and follow-through on his part, especially in his math class, and worry less about the APs, which he seems to have a good handle on.</p>

<p>BTW, if he were looking to apply to the most selective schools, they generally prefer 4 years of foreign language. And senior year is WAY too late to develop ECs.</p>

<p>But again, he’s doing well and on track to get into his school of choice, so I think that pulling him out of his school as this juncture is an over-reaction. Just take steps to solve the math issue.</p>

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<p>“Should a GC not say, this is the average number of APs at top colleges”
Guidance counselors dont have access to that kind of [ inside] information, because Colleges dont divulge it, in order to prevent parents and kids from going overboard in a misguided effort to get their kids into certain colleges . The information that GC have is what students have taken at their own schools, and what ever data is available from college common Data sets.
Students are evaluated within the context of their own school, not in comparison to another student at another school who went ape **** and took 16 AP classes.</p>