<p>Should a GC not say, this is the average number of APs at top colleges…
No, that’s not the depth of detail most GC’s get into. What they can tell you is their high school’s experience with successful candidates- often left to the specifics of Naviance or other tracking systems parents/kids have access to. Then if a parent requests a direction (intense schedule,) they will bear that in mind. It is quite common for a kid interested in engineering to be moved into CS (another poster mentioned her son taking this freshman year.) And, continue with CS2, depending on interests and abilities. It is not uncommon for kids to take 5 APs, in a hs where this is part of the culture- and the direction the school has chosen.</p>
<p>The “average number” is not usually discussed, for good reasons. Some top-performing hs have zero AP and feel their honors classes are sufficiently high level. Some don’t let kids take AP until jr year and/or limit kids to one in soph year and maybe 1-2 in jr year. Some limit the number in sr year. Some have IB tracks. Some resolve the issue by allowing “dual enrollment” with a local college. Thus, there is no “average” number of APs.</p>
<p>The PSAT score is only step one in winning a scholarship- assuming you know this. But, for the record: selection process involves evaluating substantial amounts of information about Finalists obtained from both students and their high schools. Included are the Finalist’s academic record (course load and difficulty level, depth and breadth of subjects studied, and grades earned); standardized test scores; the student’s essay; demonstrated leadership and contributions to school and community activities; and the school official’s written recommendation and characterization of the Finalist.</p>
<p>The grades problem sounds like it really only applies to freshman/soph geometry and alg 2. -that he has done reasonably well, since. -that he now turns in work appropriately and gets decent grades. ? If so, it’s logical for readers to ask, what’s the beef? Why talk of switching or homeschooling when he seems to be doing pretty well and seems to be headed for the minimum SAT required for tamu? Since many of us have both taken our kids successfully through the prep period and admissions cycles, since many of us have either dealt with varying levels of GC talent or read the number of complaints on CC about lax support, we don’t think communications issues with the GC (no matter whose fault it is) are reason to pull a kid out of a hs where he is challenged and doing well.</p>
<p>GCs are not omnipotent. They deal with X number of kids over a number of years. At my kids’ former hs, they are not involved in course selection; advisors do that (advisors who know the kid and the academic offerings/standards, but do not know college admissions.)</p>
<p>S has been involved in developing his ECs since childhood. I was probably referring to devoting time to developing recognition at the State/ National/ International levels, not school or district level achievements. By the way, I was not kidding when i said we are really not interested in admission to Ivy League schools.</p>
<p>Consolation, “recognition” in the National Merit Scholarship Program begins with commendation to all who score above a 202- 204. I realize higher recognition such as Semifinalists/ Finalist/ Scholar has higher cut offs that vary from state to state. In places like MS the cut off can be as low as 205 and in Jersey, DC etc as high as, 223. So predicting “recognition” does not mean I think he will be a scholar. I was merely suggesting he will be above the 202/ 204 on the PSAT.</p>
<p>Actually, I believe 730 is quite impressive and a whole other animal than 690-720, in my opinion. It puts him squarely inside the second standard deviation. It is funny you should mention this because when I saw the results of my son’s first PSAT in which he scored a 61, I thought he probably made a couple of lucky guesses and his true ability was probably some where below 60 (the first standard deviation). This because son got a C in Geometry freshman year in HS. So, you can imagine the joy when son was a 690 less than a year later. In any case, thanks for sharing.</p>
<p>Just so you know, I checked the online handbook and discovered, Distinguished graduation (the highest level at the school) requires 4 APs during high school. The handbook sample course load suggests Juniors take one AP class and seniors take three. This is a public high school without any special admission requirements. It was hard for me to believe that a school like this with free open admission would have eco systems that recommend one AP in freshman year and 5 by Junior year, so I checked. Don’t you think something about Distinguished graduation requirements as it pertains to the number of AP courses should have been mentioned? Treated like cannon fodder.</p>
<p>Well, I don’t presume to know anything about your child’s school, but I do know that the AP program recognizes kids who take a lot of exams, and that there are schools in my area which are public and open to anyone in the enrollment area where it is considered fairly routine for students aiming at top schools to pursue these designations.</p>
<p>In Texas last year, over 2000 kids got the AP scholar with distinction designation AP “Granted to students who receive an average score of at least 3.5 on all AP Exams taken, and scores of 3 or higher on five or more of these exams” by the end of their junior year, and nearly 150 got the National AP Scholar designation “Granted to students in the United States who receive an average score of at least 4 on all AP Exams taken, and scores of 4 or higher on eight or more of these exams.” Maybe they all go to magnet or private schools in Texas, but I can tell you that in my state, they do not. </p>
<p>Over 7% of our college-bound seniors statewide get the Scholar w/Distinction designation (5+ exams w/qualifying scores) by graduation. Since there are enough of them in just one state to fill Harvard’s freshman class more than twice over, they can’t all be going to the Ivy League schools. I am sure they are clustered in a handful of schools in two or three counties in our state, but if a kid goes to one of those schools, it’s pretty routine to load up on APs beginning in sophomore year, or even taking one freshman year.</p>
<p>Do I think that’s a good thing? I do not, really–I think the pressure to load up on these courses in order to stay competitive with one’s classmates is probably detrimental to many kids. I’m just reporting from my experience, and suggesting that your son’s guidance counselor’s experience with setting up schedules is probably an accurate barometer of that particular’s school’s customs.</p>
<p>Perazziman – the school DID mention it. In an online handbook. Part of the responsibility of a student / parent is to read reference materials instead of expecting a personal message about everything that interests you.</p>
<p>But you’re still focusing on the wrong thing. You want your kid to do well in class so he can learn, practice good study skills, etc. Not so he can graduate with distinction. That will come, or not.</p>
<p>What’s really important is how your son is doing, the academic and personal skills he’s learning for his college years and young adulthood. Look for that perspective, not so much what the hs may have done wrong. Or, how much homework he may have tonight. In many parts of the US, the bar for certain awards is set moderately, but it’s common for the stronger kids to push far beyond those minimums. Many of us do not compare our kids to the “average” or settle for ensuring they are “in range.” We set our hopes for them based on the potential we see in them. </p>
<p>One thing I’d ask myself is: in the long run, is it possible the hs did my kid a favor by testing him/her in this manner? I might even say, hey, they “dumped” him into AP CS as a freshman- and he did well! (This is a difference in focus.) Same for the issue with so many APs this year. You have a choice: view it as an awful trick or take pride in his efforts and successes. And, remember, no matter how we phrase things on CC, we all know it’s never easy to be a good parent.</p>
<p>Counseling a gifted/talented kid is different from the usual focus of a guidance counselor. When I suggested that our HS have a single counselor specialize in the GT kids, I was told that this would put too big of a workload on the other counselors - in other words, a counselor is involved in a myriad of challenges with lower-achieving kids, and the higher achieving ones have the brains and resources to figure out many of their problems. It clued me in that I was going to have to my work to do with a fairly standard public HS after going to privates my whole life. And part of that was listening to my kids and other GT families and knowing what was too much to handle - like more than 2 AP sciences. But AP Comp Sci was one of my kids’ favorite classes as a freshman - why would that be considered “dumping?” It’s subject matter is easily within the grasp of a talented freshman. The APs that rely on language or higher thinking are much more difficult for a 13-14 year old. Here again, I don’t think you, the parent, did your homework or listened much. And running around quoting standard deviations for a test score is a big clue to how strange your approach is. A PSAT score can be affected by a single wrong answer, and yet you think it’s some kind of gold standard. Not once have I heard you write the concerns of, or conversations with your son, whose student life we are dissecting here. Doesn’t he get a vote?</p>
<p>Clearly, I was not listening to other GT families or trying to figure out what was too much to handle. I was listening to my son, who selected these courses and expecting the school to be guiding him. Lesson learnt. Thanks for sharing.</p>
<p>Have you considered transferring your son over to you for home schooling? Then you wouldn’t be afraid to approach the teacher about classes, or to find out how he’s doing.</p>
<p>The criteria you linked are criteria that can be met at any time. If you drill down into the data, you will see that many students meet those criteria well before graduation (in time to include them on their college applications). Look at the kids who post on this website. There are students here who qualify for that designation by the end of sophomore year. </p>
<p>The number I cited was from a table that tells you how many students, by state, met each of the criteria for recognition at each grade level. My point was simply to let you know that your son is taking on a challenge, but a challenge many other top students attempt and accomplish. Good for him.</p>
<p>My kid’s school awards “Honor Roll” recognition to any student with a 3.0 for the quarter or better. So you’d think that 3.0 was pretty good, right? A kid who’d been on the honor roll every quarter was probably pretty distinguished? So a 3.0 should get the student into top colleges? But it’s not the case. </p>
<p>Look into what percent of your son’s school graduates with distinction before you decide whether that is the only bar you’d like him to clear.</p>
<p>Good point, I am not sure what percentage of students graduate on the DAP program at son’s school. About 10% of the kids are GT, so I doubt DAP could be higher than that.</p>