Hey I’m pretty new here and I’ve seen a couple other posts regarding this but I’m still a bit confused. I’m currently a junior in high school and I understand that when I apply to colleges I will be classified as a URM. Even if colleges do see this, how much will they take this into account when they consider accepting me?
If it helps to answer the question, I was born in Sierra Leone (West Africa) and have a decent GPA (3.75) and partake in countless extracurricular activities.
URM might be sort of a boost if you apply ED, maybe enough to push a borderline application into the acceptance pile, but no one can say for sure how big of an impact it has. The general consensus seems to be that for RD applications, URM status (and other hooks) has pretty much no effect.
Tip factor.
@usualhopeful What? URM definitely has effects in both ED and RD. Otherwise, there wouldn’t be so much grumbling about affirmative action here on CC.
Most of the Ivies attempt to market to underrepresented groups (here are just a few from about 5 minutes of quick googling):
https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/hear-our-students/multicultural-diversity
http://news.yale.edu/2015/02/09/yale-ciencia-initiative-bring-yale-science-world
https://undergrad.admissions.columbia.edu/learn/studentlife/diversity/mrc
https://www.brown.edu/about/administration/institutional-diversity/student-resources/undergraduate-recruitment
http://admissions.cornell.edu/living/diversity/multicultural-recruitment
https://admissions.dartmouth.edu/visits-programs/dartmouth-bound/native-american-community-program
Did you live in Sierra Leone for awhile? My son has a friend who got into Harvard despite having lower grades and scores than the average who lived until he was 10 in a very war-torn African country. It wasn’t just that he was a minority but also how much he over came moving here, learning English, and then distinguishing himself academically. I highly doubt Harvard ever had anyone from his country too. So if you have a really interesting story to your background plus the minority aspect it can definitely make a big difference.
If you are African rather than African American, affirmative action is not really relevant; You are not an under represented minority. Prior to about 2003, URM often stated the criteria of being “black”. But now it tends to be used to refer to students with a demographic that is under represented in that college relative to the proportion in the population of the country. My guess is that students from Sierra Leone and other west African countries are over represented in US colleges. That is because they do so well academically. But the actual numbers are probably low-and you would contribute to the overall “diversity” of a school, as would someone who played the bagpipes or was an outstanding fencer. In this post I am assuming you have retained your citizenship in Sierra Leone and that you are not a US citizen. If you are a US citizen then I think you might be categorized as an URM because you fit the larger category of African-American-an interesting wrinkle on an already complex issue.
Even though I am a US citizen I still feel as if people from African countries are under represented when it comes to admissions. Not many of us are applying for the ivy leagues.
Having served as a college placement advisor in Africa, I can confirm that being a Black African provides a substantial advantage when it comes to applying to US colleges and universities. Generally speaking, as applicants they are very competitive if their SAT/ACT scores are at the 25th percentile.
Given the abundant evidence to the contrary it is surprising there remain some who believe being a URM offers little to no advantage. A recently filed case by a group of Asian-Americans against Harvard (http://www.wsj.com/articles/asian-american-organizations-seek-federal-probe-of-harvard-admission-policies-1431719348) brought out that Harvard Admissions spots the average admitted African American 450 SAT points vs. Asian Americans, 310 vs. Caucasians and 180 points versus Hispanics. This suggests that, assuming the Asian Americans averaged the highest score possible (a perfect 2,400), admitted African Americans, who are presumably the best America has to offer, are on average, at best, scoring a 1,950 (placing them, at best, at the 90th percentile of all US test-takers).
@ams61517 Interesting perspective - or at least it would be, were it not for the fact that selective colleges employ “holistic review” in their admission decisions. If standardized tests were the only factor looked at in an application, the differences you cited would matter.
I also highly doubt most black students at HYP have a SAT score below 2100.
ETA: Take this to the AA thread so you don’t get this one closed.
@InfinityMan, I am puzzled by how the fact that Harvard conducts “holistic reviews” of applicants as part of their admissions process relates to a summary statistical analysis of the yield from that process. I trust the statistics used in the case being brought against Harvard far more than others as they are sourced from the Harvard admissions department, fact checked by the WSJ, and reported in the WSJ (and there has been no subsequent retraction or correction). Having a degree from Harvard, I am not at all surprised by the findings. What is surprising is how unaware most are of the degree that admissions standards have been relaxed for certain groups, and the extent to which financial aid accrues to those same groups.
@am61517 Then let me clarify: A) Harvard looks at things beyond scores. Essays, LORs, EC activities, Community involvement, course rigor and GPA. Students who get in who have a 2400 SAT have an overall strong application, they do * not * get in because of the score alone (as you seem to imply in your post). It helps, certainly, but it is not the “be all end all”. There are many other factors to consider. B) even if the applicant has a strong application, they may get rejected. That doesn’t mean their acceptance went to someone “less deserving”. Harvard would never admit a student unless they believe they are capable of graduating or doing great work while at college, else it would mess with their near-perfect retention rate.
Also here: http://features.thecrimson.com/2015/freshman-survey/makeup/
Go down to SAT/GPA section and click on SAT by Ethnicity. Now please explain to me how black students are “on average, at best, scoring a 1950 on the SAT” when the average shown in bar graph is 2218.
What happens when you apply as an urm (or as any type of hooked candidate) is your application gets a tag on it. Throughout the process, your tagged application gets somewhat better treatment. And from what I’ve heard from ex admissions officers, it counts as more than just a tipping factor and it counts just as much in regular decision as it does early. I’d recommend reading “A is for Admissions” by Michelle Hernandez - as far as the scores needed to get into the ivys it’s slightly outdated, but it’s written by and ex-Dartmouth admissions officer and it provides a lot of useful details about how much consideration admissions officers give to being hooked.
In short, although it’s impossible to quantify how much being an urm helps, your urm status should help you a decent amount.
Oh. Another thread citing under-informed lawsuits as proof.
“I trust the statistics used in the case being brought against Harvard far more than others as they are sourced from the Harvard admissions department…” Same stats any of us can find online. Not the details admit decisions are based on. Those are closely guarded.
Forget Hernandez. She’s out for herself, imo, and hasn’t worked in admissions since 2003.
URM helps, sure. But only if one is qualified. AND, nothing says ORM kids are automatically more qualified.
Back to OP’s question: we don’t know enough about you, but it would depend on what you got lower than an A grade in, how you stretched, and the whole app. “Countless” activities doesn’t necessarily tell us about the quality ECs. And family context can matter much.
What is your PSAT score?
@InfinityMan, your logic doesn’t hold. If the net result of “holistic” admissions process is that the average SAT of a matriculated African American at Harvard is at best a 1950, then Harvard is on average accepting African American students with a radically different SAT profile than almost any other group - i.e. on average spotting them a very substantial SAT benefit (do you really think any Asian American student with a 1950 SAT score being evaluated within the context of a “holistic” admissions process at any Ivy, let alone Harvard, would get more than a cursory glance before being unceremoniously dumped into the reject pile?). With regard to the survey you mention, it had no academic rigor. Participation was self selecting and self reporting. It is inappropriate to compare it to figures sourced directly from Harvard Admissions and reported (and fact checked) by the Wall Street Journal.
There will always be people who tell you that being URM matters a lot, and others who will tell you that it matters very little. My observation tells me that it has a significant impact–as long as you are generally a strong candidate. You will still need good grades, scores, ECs, etc. if you want to be admitted to a highly selective college. You will, however, not need quite as good scores as non-URMs, and you shouldn’t be discouraged from applying if your scores are below average for the elite schools(but not WAY below). To be honest, your GPA may be a more significant issue, especially if you aren’t taking the most rigorous curriculum your high school offers.
Here, from @lookingforward:
Hark all you want, but you still won’t convince me that the AA admits at Harvard have an average SAT of 1950 or anywhere close, else it would lower the total average SAT for the whole College.
http://oir.harvard.edu/files/huoir/files/harvard_cds_2013-14.pdf?m=1420474747
This is Harvard’s common data set for the academic year 2013-2014. The 25th SAT Percentile is 2120, and the 75th Percentile is 2400. The average is set at 2260.
For all those curious I have a 3.7 GPA (a couple b’s here and there throughout high school) and a 2050 sat score.
Throughout high school I have been:
VP of junior class
Cross country captain (all three years)
Indoor track captain this year (3 years)
FBLA secretary (1 year)
Forensics speech and debate (2 years)
National honor society
National math honor society
National English honor society
Princeton model congress
My schools model congress organization (president)
(Much, much more)
-I plan on doing an internship at Johns Hopkins on neuroscience. If I get in this could be a thing that I put on my application.
I lived in Sierra Leone until I was about 4 or 5. I didn’t speak any English and had to learn it when j came to American school. I’m probably gonna write about this on my essay and also add that my parents worked hard to help us leave Sierra Leone (huge civil war)
If you can let us know the types of courses in high school that you have take/ are taking and also what your interests are, that may help us. You have decent SAT scores, but I suspect that alone will not do it. The Ivy’s are a reach for everyone, and certainly not a slam dunk for every URM with good scores. You should think about constructing a well balanced list of universities, and also think about what is affordable. A lot of the folks here can help you sort that all that out once we have that info.