US NEWS 2007 Predictions

College Search & Lists
441

<p>Totally agree with Ivy_Grad.</p>

<p>It’s like saying all of Stern represents NYU’s GSP.</p>

442

<p>

Let’s look at some real numbers. Michigan has about 5,000 UG students in the College of Engineering, and 900 in Ross (now a 3-yr program). That’s about 25% of Michigan’s student population, and about 50% larger than Dartmouth’s entire UG student body. So are we saying that Michigan has as many (if not more) smart students as Darmouth?</p>

<p>There are other Schools/Colleges in Michigan such as Architecture, Arts & Design, Music, Kinesiology, Nursing, Pharmacy, etc. Most of these are top notch programs in their own fields. We have to exclude these students from comparsion as Dartmouth does not offer any of these programs.</p>

<p>The rest of the students are in LSA (about 50%-60%). Are you saying these are all mediocre students?</p>

<p>Look, no one is saying that the average Michigan student is as good as the average Dartmouth student. I believe Alexandre is saying that at least the top half of Michigan’s students are just as good.</p>

<p>Michigan’s strength, however, is that it is strong across the board, with top 10 or top 15 programs in almost every department. It allows for plenty of opportunities for interdisciplinary studies and research.</p>

<p>On a separate note. I don’t think it is appropriate to compare Michigan with Dartmouth … just like you wouldn’t compare Michigan with LACs.</p>

443

<p>

</p>

<p>Thank you.</p>

<p>That is the only point I was trying to make.</p>

444

<p>ACA, Michigan LSA is significantly better than NYU CAS. No offense, but the two aren’t in the same league. Just look at graduate schools placement and peer assessment scores. Michigan is #13 in the nation according to the peer assessment score and #18 in the nation in prefessional school placement. Those lofty rankings are a direct reflection of Michigan LSA since most students who go to Law School and Medical School are LSA graduates and since Michigan reputation in the general academic world is a result of its strengths in the Humanities and Social Sciences. NYU is #35 in the nation according to the peer assessment score and did not make the list of the top 30 feeder universities according to the WSJ report. NYU CAS is indeed good, but it is not as good as Michigan LSA.</p>

<p>I repeat, LSA, Engineering and Ross are all equally good in their respective ways. Ross is one of the nation’s top 5 undergraduate Business programs out of 25 or so excellent undergraduate Business programs. The Michigan CoE is one of the top 10 undergraduate Engineering programs in the nation. Michigan’s college of LSA is one of the top 20 universities in the nation for students seeking a broad based traditional undergraduate education.</p>

<p>Ivy_Grad, that is not the point you are trying to make. I have been saying all along that the average student at Dartmouth is better than the average student at Michigan, as well it should be. Michigan does not have the luxury to restrict its class to 1,000 Freshmen. And I have also been saying all along that Dartmouth and Michigan are impossible to compare because they are so different. Dartmouth is essentially a LAC. 90% of its students major in a traditional academic discipline. Michigan is far more academically diverse. With large colleges of Music, Architecture, Kinesiology, Business and Engineering, Michigan is hardly traditional and is more comparable to Penn and Cornell. But the point you are trying to make is that Dartmouth is a better university than Michigan and that all things being equal, a student is better off going to Dartmouth than Michigan. My point is that the two schools are equally good and that a student will be equally well served going to one as going to the other.</p>

445

<p>I wasn’t comparing NYU CAS vs Michigan LSA.</p>

446

<p>

</p>

<p>That depends on how do you define as general undergraduate education and how do you measure it. Let me know about your SUBJECTIVITY ON GENERAL UNDERGRADUATE EDUCATION? Students at Caltech take extremely harsh classes, the professors often don’t give useful lecture, most students understand the classes from purely reading the text book, and on top of it they don’t have enough socializing. Now are you gonna say that Dartmouth offers better undergraduate education than Caltech. It’s a ridiculous biased measure. Sometimes the quality of the program is more significant than the way the classes are fed, esp. more so for top cream students. Hence when you compare Michigan vs. Dartmouth, look at the reality, what major the applicants are interested and how that path goes into their respective career. The fact is Michigan reputation is mostly famous for engineering and business, and the number of students in those fields is significant. And normally those who applied to Ibanking or engineering from Michigan come from these majors, and I don’t see how History or Math grads from Dartmouth would be more appealing to the employers.</p>

<p>And what do you mean by crappy engineering, let me know if you’re gonna meet any, I mean, ANY Ibanker that would beat Larry Page, a member of National Academy of Engineering from Stanford.</p>

<p>Bottomlines to cosider:

  • average student quality at Dartmouth > Michigan? Yes
  • average students at Dartmouth have better attention from the profs? Yes
  • this means that the general education experience at Dartmouth is better? No
  • In terms of overall reputation, Dartmouth > Michigan? No
  • Dartmouth’s diploma gives better opportunity than Michigan’s? Depends on the major
  • Does Dartmouth affiliation with Ivy help a lot in this matter? hardly
  • this means no brainer choice to choose Dartmouth: No
  • Why?
    Because Michigan has a number of departments for which it’s actually no brainer to choose Michigan over Dartmouth.</p>
447

<p>rtkysg, </p>

<p>English isn’t your native language is it?</p>

448

<p>

</p>

<p>The thing is, you can say this about a lot of schools. A prospective filmmaker would be better off at USC or NYU rather than Harvard. Yet this does not mean that Harvard does not provide an overall stronger education. In the same vein, Michigan might certainly be a better choice for some students, but when talking about “general undergraduate education,” I think you have to look past specific departmental strengths and factor in some of those things you wrote off, like average student quality and attention from professors. Overall, I don’t think the difference between the two is very big, but for the average student on the undergraduate level, IMO it certainly exists.</p>

<p>Now how much that difference will actually matter in life is an entirely different issue.</p>

449

<p>

</p>

<p>I’d like to know which year that was, because it’s not in my notes. In fact, I’d love to see the rankings in their entirety for the years prior to 1994, because I don’t have them.</p>

<p>But I disagree that USNews ranked the Michigan MBA program in the top 6-7 from 1991-1995. I know that USNews ranked the Michigan MBA program #8 in 1994 and #11 in 1995.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.consusgroup.com/news/rankings/business_schools/us_news_1995.asp[/url]”>http://www.consusgroup.com/news/rankings/business_schools/us_news_1995.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.consusgroup.com/news/rankings/business_schools/us_news_1994.asp[/url]”>http://www.consusgroup.com/news/rankings/business_schools/us_news_1994.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>In 1996 and 1997, it was ranked #12.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.consusgroup.com/news/rankings/business_schools/us_news_1996.asp[/url]”>http://www.consusgroup.com/news/rankings/business_schools/us_news_1996.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.consusgroup.com/news/rankings/business_schools/us_news_1997.asp[/url]”>http://www.consusgroup.com/news/rankings/business_schools/us_news_1997.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

450

<p>

</p>

<p>Now there’s a fair and balanced answer for you.</p>

<p>So if I can summarize, the short answer is that Dartmouth is better, right? :)</p>

451

<p>

</p>

<p>Er, what is Dartmouth? lol. </p>

<p>Many on the West Coast, in the West in general, and abroad have no idea what Darmouth is. Sorry, even if it may be a good university, it doesn’t have name recognition at all.</p>

452

<p>Then it must have been in 1992 or 1993. I remember it was when I was a student at Michigan, before 1996, but I do not remember the exact year. I do remember Michigan MBA rising to #5 in the USNWR and then, dropping to #13 over the course of 5 or 6 years and now it is making its way back in the top 10.</p>

453

<p>Rtksyg, funny you should mention Larry Page. He happens to be a Michigan Engineering Alum! hehe</p>

454

<p>this conversation has disolved into the stupid level</p>

455

<p>dissolved even</p>

456

<p>

</p>

<p>Have you ever heard of the Ivy League? No?</p>

<p><a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_league[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_league&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Sorry, but, just because you are on the West coast and you have not heard of Dartmouth, you hardly speak for all (or even a majority of) well-informed West coasters.</p>

<p>Well educated Americans (regardless of location) know what the Ivy League is (and which schools make up the Ivies).</p>

<p>Frankly, if anything, your post only serves to highlight your own ignorance rather than demonstrate anything meaningful about Dartmouth. No offense.</p>

457

<p>You’re very testy, ivygrad. I like that.</p>

458

<p>GentlemenandScholar,</p>

<p>LOL</p>

<p>I know I come off sounding pretty p*issed off or something - but it’s all good really.</p>

<p>I mean the brutal reality is simply this: a significant majority of Americans are just downright ignorant.</p>

<p>That doesn’t make me mad at all - it kind of makes me sad…“I’m not mad at ya. I got nothin’ but love for ya.”</p>

<p>I mean what do you say to someone who says, “Dartmouth? What’s that? No name recognition, buddy!” </p>

<p>You just have to laugh really.</p>

<p>Your average American frequents Wal-Mart, but has never heard of Bergdorf Goodman; probably loves hitting that $1 Quarter Pounder at Mickey D’s but will never get a chance to sample a 21 Club Hamburger.</p>

<p>Do I come off sounding like a total elitest? Don’t hate the player, hate the game.</p>

459

<p>Okay Mr. spell checker - you can chill. You single handily have demonstrated why I didn’t go to an ivy league school. You obviously are lacking “people skills” and you have shown to have a “superiority complex.” You have demonstrated your “ability” to hit the “quotation key” numerous times. I can only “imagine” that you probably “speak” with “finger quotes” in “real life.” I think it would be best if people would stop responding to you because all you seem to do is patronize them instead of having a polite discussion. I don’t need you to correct my spelling just as you don’t need me to correct your broken sentences.</p>

<p>And yes, you do come off sounding like a total elitest.</p>

460

<p>I’m making friends!!!</p>

<p>Look, I couldn’t give a rat’s a*ss what you “think” of me (that was just for you).</p>

<p>I’m here to set the record straight on the anti-Ivy campaign.</p>

<p>(here’s a tip: I’m not here to make friends)</p>