<p>I think Berkeley came in 13th most selective in USNew (I don’t have the mag in front of me so I could be off by a couple), so are you willing to admit that Berkeley is the 13th best school for undergrads in the country?</p>
<p>Ivies (less Cornell) + MIT / Stanford / Caltech are the definitive Top 10 elite undergrad programs. </p>
<p>That was my point (as backed up by the 10 Most Selective National U’s ranking by USNWR and Atlantic Monthly).</p>
<p>As for Cal, I have always maintained that it is the best Public U. in the US. and I believe that it is a Top 15 university - which would fall very much in line with USNWR’s selectivity ranking.</p>
<p>Frankly, I have always maintained my high esteem of Cal and I’d challenge you to find a single post that contradicts that.</p>
<p>I actually also agree Cal is better than Michigan and if it were in the top 15 I would say that would be a legitimate ranking.</p>
<p>I also agree that Cal is better than Michigan. I would say that its peer assessment score is right on. Cal is definitely one of the top 7 or 8 undergraduate universities in the nation.</p>
<p>Nobody wants to talk about any of the LAC’s? Not at all?</p>
<p>Sakky does.</p>
<p>What about LACs do you want to talk about Sakky? LACs and research universities are so different, it is impossible to compare them.</p>
<p>Sakky doesn’t want to compare LACs to research/larger schools, although he might mention that he thinks some of the schools which we’ve been discussing should be compared with the LACs directly, and not on a lists as have been projected on this thread. I think what he was pointing out was the general lack of concern for the rankings of LACs on this thread. But I speak too much for him.</p>
<p>I would agree with sakky then! But wait…I think we are now both assuming too much! LOL</p>
<p>I’ve always believed that USNews ought to combine the rankings of LAC’s and research universities when they rank undergraduate programs. After all, they both give out bachelor’s degree, so why shouldn’t their undergraduate programs be compared? </p>
<p>I agree that it’s difficult to make such a comparison because of the different sizes of the programs. For example, Arizona State (all 3 campuses) has more undergraduates than does the entire top 10 of the USNews research universities combined. USNews also compares programs with completely different foci. For example, Dartmouth has an focus that is completely different from, say, Berkeley. Dartmouth is undergraduate focused. Berkeley is graduate focused. So if USNews can compare programs like that, then it’s not much more of a stretch to also compare Berkeley to, say, Williams or Amherst. </p>
<p>I think any serious talk about the true top X undergraduate programs has to consider the LAC’s. After all, people readily turn down research universities for LAC’s (and vice versa). Harvard is not just competing for students against MIT, Stanford, Yale and Princeton. It’s also competing against Amherst, Williams, Wellesley . Caltech has to compete against Harvey Mudd. UPenn has a local competitor in Swarthmore. (In fact, Joseph Wharton, the founder of the Wharton School, also founded Swarthmore).</p>
<p>Top 15 Public Universities:</p>
<ol>
<li>Berkeley</li>
<li>Virginia</li>
<li>UCLA</li>
<li>Michigan</li>
<li>UNC</li>
<li>UCSD</li>
<li>W&M</li>
<li>Wisconsin</li>
<li>GA Tech</li>
<li>UC Davis</li>
<li>UCI</li>
<li>Illinois</li>
<li>UCSB</li>
<li>Washington</li>
<li>Penn State</li>
</ol>
<p>i agree with batman32c’s first 8. I think those will be the top 8 publics in this coming years us news.</p>
<p>(in the order he gave)</p>
<p>Thanks ucchris. I think we may need to think about a top 9. UC Davis is currently ranked no. 14 (should have been ranked higher, but fell due to a reporting error). Yeah, UCD probably should have been in the 11-12 range and there are plenty of reasons to watch for UCD to rise even higher for 2007: transition to D1 athletics (creates a ton of $ for research, campus expansion, etc.) much higher private donations this year (which factors in highly for the US News rankings), etc. Yeah, I’m prediciting the UC Davis name to grow pretty fast…GO AGGIES!</p>
<p>man dont u know the only true aggies are those of TEXAS A&M jk, i myself find them absolutely hillarious to observe. gotta be the worlds largest frat. and they probably have more traditions than the vatican.</p>
<p>i think syracuse should move up from number 50.</p>
<p>what about UTexas?</p>
<p><em>shrugs shoulders</em></p>
<p>is UC Davis going to surpass UC Irvine considering they fix the error with UC Davis?</p>
<p>UNC-Chapel Hill will once again be moving up the list, and will remain ahead of Wake Forest as it did last year.</p>