US vs. UK Schools (HELP)

College Search & Lists
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Okay so some background: I’m Class of 2016, IB Diploma Candiate, with some AP courses under my belt

I was born and raised in the Philippines. I moved to America summer before 6th Grade and stayed in the same town until half of my 9th Grade year. Then, moved to another town and finished off 9th. Moved again and staying in this town until I graduate. (My counselor and other people have told me that my story will really help me out a lot when applying to American schools).

Academically:

I’m okay. I took Algebra and Spanish I in middle school and got credit for it. Because of the move midway my freshman year, it kinda jumbled my classes about. It hurt that I moved different states too because of very different education systems. But before the move, I was in all honors classes (I would’ve taken APs but the school didn’t offer them to freshmen and sophomores) and taking two honors math classes (Geometry and Algebra II). After the move, the only honors classes the second school had was English and Geometry. I had to drop the Algebra II because the school wouldn’t let me take it even though I had already completed half the course. I was very good in grades. I had As in most of the classes throughout the year except for gym in the second school (I had issues with the teacher and the students).

Sophomore Year, the third high school I moved to only offered AP World for sophomores (I got a 4 on the test). I had to retake Algebra II but they let me take on Honors Precalculus and Honors Chemistry. No honors or AP for English though.

Junior Year, I got into the IB Diploma program – all IB classes: Physics 11 HL, HOTA 11 HL, Lit 11 HL, Spanish 4 SL/HL (I choose later on in October which test I take), Business & Management SL (I got a 5 on the test), and IB Math SL (also same class as AP Calculus BC 1) (I got a 5 also on the test --disappointed on that), of course ToK. I was also a Science Research program student and competed in the Long Island Science Congress.

Senior Year, I’m signed up for – IB classes: Lit 12 HL, HOTA 12 HL, Spanish 5 (probs HL), Physics 12 HL, and ToK; APs: European History and Calculus BC; and Science Research. BTWs, I’m using Science Research to help me with my Extended Essay. Right now, I want to say that I’m expecting at least 6s on my IB tests and some 7s because I was really close to getting 6s with B&M and Math but I didn’t study and just kinda BSed them. For Euro, I’m expecting a 5. Calculus is a wild card.

Average: 4.0 unweighted

ECs:

Not my strong suit. Freshman year, all I did was Mock Trial. I did nothing Sophomore Year except get a job at the end of it. I still have the job, passed the one year mark on April. I work with a lot of Spanish people and the job helps me a lot practice the language. I can understand most of what they’re saying and communicate back.

Junior Year, I signed up for Science Olympiads and did three events. I won 5th place for the Regional level in Protein Modelling with my partner. I was also a part of a club called Schools for Schools. I invited two guest speaker to come speak at a lecture at my current high school. I’m was also a volunteer tutor for a 2nd grader.

Right now, the summer after junior year, I’m interning with the local historical society four days a week and I’m going to attend an international youth leadership retreat for one week away to a university.

I’m also signed up for a kinda mission trip to Albuquerque in September for five days. I’ll be doing Science Olympiads again, Schools for Schools, and the tutoring when school picks up again. I’m thinking of joining the bowling and golfing team because I’ve never done a sports before.

P.S. I’m bilingual. I speak English and Tagalog fluently.

SATs: I took once cold and got an 1830. 690 on the Math, 530 on the Reading, and 580 on the Writing. (Taking again in November after taking prep classes)
ACTs: 28 (Same, taking again November)
SAT subject tests: took a lot, most are terrible (not sending any)

So, I’m definitely going into History and hopefully a foreign language (German/Swedish). I want to also pursue Celtic and Scandinavian studies after getting my bachelors.

US Schools I’m looking at:

Boston University
New York University
Columbia University
Chapel Hill
University of Buffalo
Cornell University

I want to Early Action most of them and if I wasn’t really gunning for UK schools, I would probably Early Decision Columbia/Cornell. My friend is actually using his Early Decision for one of his safe schools instead of a reach but I dont wanna do that because I want to take a risk and see if I get into Columbia.

UK Schools:

Oxford (Don’t think that’s gonna happen)
University of Manchester (Really hoping for this one)
Edinburgh
Glasgow
Warwick

So, my problem is my impatience. I don’t want to wait until next summer to know if I’m going overseas for college if I get a conditional offer. I would really love to go to a UK School but I don’t like conditional offers. Plus I am still applying to American schools as advised by my counselor. I’m also confused. We don’t find out what the AP/IB scores are until next summer but decision day for my school is in May 1st. How does that work? I would really like to know where I’m going by at the latest January/Febraury 2016. So, what if I don’t get high enough scores and I didn’t accept any offers from the American schools because I waited on the conditional UK ones? I would like to have unconditional offers from the UK schools I apply to? Do you think it would be possible for Manchester to give me one if I just improve my SAT score? Also, any recommendations to other “safe” UK schools?

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  1. May 1 decision day is for US colleges, not your school- it is the day by which you have to have put a deposit down.
  2. If you are waiting on a conditional offer for the UK (and you don't have an unconditional one for insurance), then most people put a deposit on a US university. If/when they meet their conditions they cancel the place (yes, you lose your deposit: you can't have it every way).
  3. You can only apply ED to one school, but you can still apply to other schools, even in the US and usually even EA (nost SCEA)- you just have to promise to drop the others if your ED comes through. Technically it does not apply to non-US universities (read the fine print), but imo,if you apply ED you should mean it :-)
  4. If you want to apply to University of Manchester for History, using APs / SATIIs and SATs, all you need are:

GPA 3.0, SAT of 1800/2400 OR ACT 27+, plus 3 APs with a score of 4 or better. On an individual basis they will consider SAT IIs (they like APs better). From what I can tell, you already have a 4 on APWH- do you have any other APs / SATIIs? If you are really impatient, sit 2 SATIIs in the fall, get 600+ and you are probably in good shape for Manchester.

All UK unis put their requirements on their websites, so you can work out exactly how likely you are to get an offer- for all the ones that you listed (except Oxford), if you have the qualifications listed you should get an unconditional offer. If you apply with IB you will have to wait, as you won’t have your results. Oxford wants a minimum of 38 points, with at least 6s on 3 HL papers (and irl you need some 7s or a really good score on the HAT) (there is a view that IB is the hardest path into Oxbridge).

  1. IMO, your counselor is overselling how much sympathy you are going to get for the changes of 9th grade- especially as your grades didn't suffer. It can make a good essay, but it's harder than you might think to make it a good essay- because you have to go past the 'this happened and it was awful' part to the 'this is how I dealt with it' part and then to the 'this is what I have done with that experience'. I'm not discounting it- 3 towns and 3 schools in 1 year is a lot for a kid to go through- just saying that it's not as uncommon as you might think (says the mom who put one of her Ds through 3 schools in 2 countries in 1.5 years).
  2. You didn't really ask for opinions on your US schools (which are a kind of unusual mix), but imo you really aren't in the hunt for Columbia, Cornell or Chapel Hill (assuming you are OOS)- at least as presented here. Your test scores are in the bottom 20% for Columbia, and bottom 25% for Cornell. You have a laundry list of activities, but no real focus. Adding random things like bowling and golfing at this stage diffuses the picture, when you want to be focusing it- creating a narrative arc of your story and where it's going.
  3. You also didn't ask for opinions about subjects, but I notice that you are applying for History in the UK- a subject which is intensively reading and writing- yet your scores are weakest in reading/writing areas and strongest in maths. And, with the exception of this summer, all your strong ECs are in maths/sciences. When you apply to UK unis there is one application essay (Personal Statement) that all your unis see, in which you make the case for why you want to study that subject (b/c that is all you study- no GenEds, etc)- and you demonstrate why you are a good candidate for that subject. This is also relevant to actually doing the course: if you do history at Oxford, you will write a minimum of one 5-7 page research paper every week of term- you get the topic, research it (with the help of a 2-4 page suggested reading list) and write it within the week, then discuss it at your tutorial, where you will get your next topic, and start again). Reading and writing need to be real strengths to get through that!
  4. Other posters are going to ask if you have done your NPC to make sure you can afford the colleges you are interested in- don't forget to do the math for the UK as well, as there is no meaningful merit or financial aid and you have to demonstrate that you can meet your costs for the year before you can get your student visa.
  5. Just out of curiousity: Buffalo?!
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OP, how would you finance your studies?

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  1. Okay, I was really confused about all of those things. I didn't want to end up not having put a deposit on a US school and then, having my UK schools fall through. Thanks for clearing it up.
  2. After some research, I've realized that too and although I love the IB program, I'm kinda regretting my choice to go into it now. It would have been more helpful if I had taken AP classes instead. I have the GPA, I just have to work on the SATs. I didn't study when I took it but this summer I'm signed up for a prep class and be more prepared when I take it. I just checked my SAT II's and the best ones I got is a 610 in Literature, 630 in Math 2, and 650 in Chemistry.
  3. Lol yes, she probably was.
  4. For my US schools, I love Boston and NYU. I grew up in an urban setting so I want to go back to that. Suburbia isn't really my thing. I know Columbia and Cornell are a stretch. I don't think I'm going to even apply to Cornell but they have a good history department so, I put it on the list. I am also not convinced with Chapel Hill because I know I'm not gonna like the weather down in North Carolina. And yes, I know my ECs are all over the place. I've kinda spent the last three years exploring and trying a whole bunch of things. In the beginning, I wanted to go for Law - that's why I was in Mock Trial freshman year. I've always been a strong math and science student. Math has always been my strongest subject. Although I love it, I don't wanna pursue it in college. I just can't see myself doing it down the road. Bowling is the only sport that I could play and I was going to do it for fun. Same thing for golf. Plus fill up those pesky Action hours for CAS.
  5. Even though my test scores don't necessarily show it, I am pretty good at writing. My history teachers have always given me exemplary marks for all of the essays required by the IB curriculum. My SAT scores were kinda a fluke because I was completely unprepared for it, I didn't skip any of the questions that I didn't know, which did more harm than good, and I also wasted a lot of time in the essay writing in the beginning. I also love reading. I'm kinda one of those who reads the textbook and non fiction for fun. As long as it's not poetry, I'll be thrilled to read it. Also, I don't have a problem with the research essays.
  6. I know, history is one of the hardest courses to get into. I was kinda hoping by choosing a course like History and German that it would kinda decrease the competition? I want to learn another language as well so, kinda two birds with one stone? Also, I'm really into Celtic and Scandinavian studies. I was hoping to pursue them in grad school and start out generic.
  7. For my personal statement --- working on that.
  8. I did some research on the financial stuff and found that I can still take out a loan from the US government even though I am going overseas for college.
  9. I needed some safe schools from an in-state college. Buffalo was far enough and cheap enough to fit the bill. Btw, do you happen to know any UK schools that are kinda in the same "safe" standing as Buffalo that I could add to the list. I know all my UK schools are Russell Group so they're probably all reach schools for me. I seriously think that Oxford isn't going to happen so I'll probably end up kicking out of the list. I don't like Warwick and Glasgow either. So, I still have three open spots on the list.
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Through a loan and I’ll also be working through college

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Do you realize what the federal loan limit is or know whether you will be allowed to work in the UK?

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“Through a loan and I’ll also be working through college”

If you are eligible to file the FAFSA (and that isn’t clear from your original post - are you a citizen or legal permanent resident?), you can borrow the standard student loans: $5,500 freshman year, $6,500 sophomore year, $7,500 junior year, and $7,500 senior year. Any debt beyond that will have to be PLUS loans that your parents take out, or private loans that someone will co-sign with you.

Sit down with your parents and find out how much they truly are ready, willing, and able to pay each year for all four years (assuming a US degree program). Find out if they have any restrictions on this money (some parents will pay more for certain majors or certain colleges/universities). If your parents have no notion about the money issue, ask them to run the Net Price Calculator at each college/university website.

Your current US list has no safety or matches on it. Take some time to identify at least one place where your stats will flat-out guarantee you admission, that your family can easily pay for, and where you’d be happy to study if all else goes wrong in the application process.

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Like I said, I did some research beforehand but I cant recall specific details on the top of my head. I just know that yes, I will be available to file the FAFSA once my mom’s citizenship gets sorted, it’s in the final proceedings right now and it will be finished by the next few weeks.

I don’t want to get any money or the sort from my parents. I don’t want them to have any say so, I’m not giving them any financial leverage against me. Besides, they are in no shape to help me out nor do they want to anyways.

University of Buffalo is a safety school, is it not? I can always apply to SUNY schools, from which I could easily get scholarships to help me out and get the benefit of in-state tuition.

What I really wanna know is the safety schools in the UK and if I stand a chance in getting into Manchaster.

Or take an alternate route and ED NYU or Boston.

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Yes, international students are allowed to work up to 20 hours during school and full time during breaks

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If you don’t want parents to take out loans and you know the federal loan limit, how will you make up the difference?

@happymomof1: Buffalo is a SUNY and may be a safety (I’m not sure how high their standards are these days).

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Provided you are a US citizen or legal permanent resident alien, you can file the FAFSA. Your parents’ status doesn’t matter, just yours. Good luck to your mom!

If you don’t want any money from your parents, then you have to find a place you can pay for on your own. How much money do you already have? If you have a significant college fund, that is one thing. Most students your age don’t.

The estimated COA at SUNY Buffalo for 2015-2016 for a NY State resident is $24,637. http://financialaid.buffalo.edu/costs/undergradcost.php So figure something in the range of $25,500 for 2016-2017. Subtracting the standard student loan of $5,500, you would need to come up with $20,000. Can you do that?

If you don’t want your parents’ money for your education, and you don’t have much of your own, then you need to look for serious merit-based aid. Start with this thread: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1678964-links-to-popular-threads-on-scholarships-and-lower-cost-colleges.html#latest Check out all of the links. You will need to pull your SAT and ACT scores up to meet the requirements for many of the scholarships, so plan time in your schedule to do the prep.

For need-based aid, you do need your parents’ cooperation as they will have to file the FAFSA and perhaps the CSS Profile each year.

Take NYU completely off your list. Their financial aid is lousy.

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@PurpleTitan - I’m thinking that Buffalo may be very safe for admissions. But if it doesn’t guarantee admissions for certain stats it can’t be considered truly safe (I don’t know anything about it’s admissions policy). Also this student clearly needs to investigate the money factor a bit more. Buffalo might not be within budget.

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I didn’t come here to discuss my family life. Don’t bring up my mom because you have no idea what is going on. It’s a complicated and private thing. I understand that the government doesn’t take into consideration cases where the parents refuse to help their child out with getting a bigger loan outside of the $5,500 limit. Even if that’s not the case, the truth of the matter is my parents are in no shape to even help me pay for college.

Frankly, for them, my only option is the community college here but that is so not going to happen (not that there’s anything wrong with community college). I was not disregarding the money factor at all. I’ll be fighting tooth and nail for the chance I could convince my parents to get the loan in their name but every cent will still be paid by me. If not, there are other relatives that I could approach for help.

Also, buffalo is a safe school. That is something confirmed and approved by my counselor. My friend, who just graduated, applied and got accepted to Buffalo. He only took a couple AP and honors classes, got a lower SAT score than me, and has a weighted 89 average, which is opposed to my 97.80 --he still got a scholarship offer. Also, although the total is around $21,000. Tuition is actually only $6,000. It is the room and board that costs $12,000 and other fees such as meal plans and such. I’ll always have the option of just renting a room. I checked there are affordable ones that would only cost me $500 per month, which cuts back that $12,000 in half. I’ll be working part-time or full-time if I could do it. I’ll be living very frugally probably as expected but I’ll be able to make it. Plus, this is the reason why I’ve been slaving myself over for the last year at work, picking up more hours than I should have. I knew from the start money was going to be a problem. It’s why when most of my friends are in Europe or vacationing somewhere, I’m working 40 hours a week. I am not disregarding the money situation, trust me.

For god’s sakes, it’s not like I’m hitting up all the Ivys. I just wanted to try for Columbia and Oxford. I know I’m not getting into Oxford. I just have it in my list to make myself feel better. I just wanted to know if I actually stood a chance with Manchester.

Thank you so much to @collegemom3717. You cleared the matters I was most confused in. I’d love to hear any recommendations of other great but also safe schools that I could possibly apply to in the UK.

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You still haven’t given any indication that you can attend a UK school without taking on crushing debt that you’ll regret later (and that’s assuming that you can get loans). If you consider sound advice from people who really have no reason to help you besides out of the kindness of their hearts to be condescending, then I’m afraid that you shouldn’t expect much advice in the future.

But hey, it’s your life. Good luck.

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I don’t understand at all. Oxford is pretty expensive and has no financial aid available for international students. So why even apply?

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I said in my first reply actually that I don’t think I’m even applying to Oxford at all. I know I’m actually not getting in. It was a nice dream. But let’s just forget about Oxford. It’s Manchester that I’m really pinning for. Not Oxford.

I really wanna hear about any recommendations for UK schools that have decent programs in history that would be considered an equal to say Buffalo here in the US.

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Okay, let’s talk about Manchester, then. How do you plan to afford going there? Working in England is not a possibility at all given the new crackdown on international students’ liberty.

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Okay so I wasn’t very clear about the money situation. My parents will go as far as help me get the loan. It’ll be on their name but I’ll be the one paying it back. I can also approach some of my relatives to help me out. I have savings that I figure could support me for awhile.

I was not aware of the new crackdown on international students’ liberty. According to Manchester’s site, there hasn’t been any changes to the rule that international students can work 20 hours a week during school with no limitations during breaks. (http://www.manchester.ac.uk/study/international/finance/working-while-studying/)

Right now, I’m trying to decide whether it’s actually worth it to go through all this trouble if I’m not gonna get accepted anyways, then I’d rather just early decision a US school. Can you tell me if I stand a chance based on the information I’d given? And if I don’t, what can I do to get there since I do have some time before the application is due on January of next year.

I will be taking the SATs and the ACTs again on October.

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I just checked on the site of the UK Council for International Students Affair (http://www.ukcisa.org.uk/International-Students/Study-work–more/Working-during-your-studies/Can-I-work/#). The site was newly updated just four days ago. It is true that there are definitely changes in the system and that some international students will not be able to work at all or are limited to 10 hours per week.

However, Manchester is on the list of universities that do allow their international students to work. The list does not detail if Manchester has limited the amount of hours allowed to ten. But juxtaposing with the information found on Manchester’s official site regarding the matter, we can conclude that the rules has not changed at least for Manchester international students.

Thanks for the heads up though. I will definitely keep an eyeful watch about this if/when I consider other UK schools.

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As a non-EU citizen whose parents work in the EU, and who applied to British universities and studied under a British curriculum, I found that it was much easier to go to college in America, including by finding scholarships and other aid. In fact, I thought it was even easier to go to US schools than go to school in Australia, where I am a citizen and where the government is good with its educational policies.

I just hope that you just think more about how much harder things can be outside America. Also, have you thought about what you will do after graduating? There may be issues with degree recognition when you go back to the US, and companies may require you to submit your transcripts and degree to a verifying agency, which will cost a gooood amount of money every time, depending on the preferences of the employer. It is a lot of headache, to be honest.

If you are interested in ‘Celtic and Scandinavian studies’, why not just apply to schools in Sweden and Norway, and perhaps Finland? I haven’t checked their policies recently, but Sweden did offer a lot of free tuition offers to many international students (and, in the past, was free to attend for everyone), as did Norway. Finland should have some generous opportunities as well. Living costs are high, though, but probably not very far from what they would be in the UK. Germany’s tuition/exam fees are negligible as well, and if you study German now, you could potentially go there as well. Berlin is not an expensive city to live in, probably thanks to rent control.

If I were you, I’d just go to an American school that gives me $$ (definitely have to get your test scores up, though), and study abroad for a year through one of its exchange programs in Europe.