USA Patriot Act Reauthorization

Parent Cafe
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<p>Can anyone here help me understand the current position of the Patriot Act? Specifically, I get that the Senate voted against reauthorization yesterday, but was their vote specific just to the 16 components of the legislation, or, to the entire Act? </p>

<p>If the Senate vote was specific to the entire Act, then what about the version that was passed through conference committee - does this mean that there is legislation pending on two versions, each with different provisions?</p>

<p>Last, if congress recesses for the holidays and nothing is resolved, does the entire Patriot Act go away (sunset)? </p>

<p>Thanks in advance if anyone can explain.</p>

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<p>Here’s the scoop on the Patriot Act:</p>

<p>As enacted in 2002, the law contains 14 provisions that expire on 12/31/05 … Congress has been working all year on legislation to extend or make permanent those 14 provisions.</p>

<p>Currently, the effort has gotten to within one vote (and a Presidential signature) of becoming law. That’s where it’s stuck.</p>

<p>First–most of the Patriot Act is the law and remains the law, no matter what happens in the next day or two (or so).</p>

<p>If there’s no resolution of the current controversy before Congress adjourns for the year (sometime in the next 2-3 days, we think), then the 14 provisions expire (altho the underlying law remains the law).</p>

<p>The conference report makes 12 of the 14 provisions (as modified) permanent law. The remaining two provisions (which are the source of all the controversy) would be extended (as modified) for four years.</p>

<p>The House approved the conference report on 12/14. The Senate, however, has not approved the conference report. What happened was that the motion to proceed to debate (necessary prior to debating/voting on any bill) was being filibustered. To cut off the filibuster, a “cloture motion” was filed…it takes 60 votes (3/5 of the Senate) to approve cloture (cut off debate). The cloture motion failed, by a 52-47 vote, on December 16. Hence, the motion to proceed to the conference report is still being debated…</p>

<p>Negotiations continue. A conference report cannot be amended (it’s the product of negotiated agreement between the House and Senate). So either at least 8 of those who voted against cloture have to be persuaded to change their minds (unlikely), or the House & Senate will BOTH have to vote to approve a new version–which the President must agree to sign.</p>

<p>As of now, it looks like the 14 expiring Patriot Act provisions will in fact expire (altho Congress is virtually certain to revisit the issue and pass new versions of some or all of those 14 provisions as “new law” early next year). However, it’s possible that instead both the House & Senate will agree to a short (they’re talking about 3 months) extension of current law–the 14 provisions as currently operative–in order to give lawmakers more time to find an acceptable compromise.</p>

<p>Does that help?</p>

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<p>Yes, it does, thank you for taking the time to spell it out, but I thought there were 16 provisions, and one of them - I think it’s actually the 16th - is the one that impacts federal law enforcement agencies ability to share intel - is this correct, or are there really only 14 provisions? </p>

<p>Second, I assume that if the Patriot Act remains law, that means that the elements of it related to Bank Secrecy, the requirement to file SARs, to treat politically exposed persons with due diligence in the financial space also remain intact, correct? (Because they’re contained within the 12 permanent provisions.)</p>

<p>Last, is there a resource somewhere that explains this - and other federal legislative issues - in basic terms? I’ve tried using Thomas but find it confusing.</p>

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<p>I’m sorry I can’t be more helpful…I’m watching PATRIOT Act activity for “procedural reasons,” but am not an expert (or even particularly knowledgeable) on its substantive provisions…</p>

<p>I’m reasonably certain there are only 14 provisions that expire 12/31 and need to be extended… but it sounds like you know more than I do about the substance of the bill…</p>

<p>As for sources for finding out more…try the Congressional Record, and the committee sites (Defense Committees, <a href=“http://www.house.gov%5B/url%5D”>www.house.gov</a> and <a href=“http://www.senate.gov--sometimes%5B/url%5D”>www.senate.gov–sometimes</a> the committees post good summaries of legislation on their websites)…</p>

<p>Good luck…</p>

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<p>Thanks for your help - I’m trying to watch it for other business reasons, but don’t really find the house and senate websites very helpful in terms of translating progress into terms a person outside the process can easily understand.</p>

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<p>I can explain the process issues to you…those I do understand…it’s the substance on which I know very little…but maybe we should switch over to PMs rather than carrying on our own seemingly private public thread??</p>

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<p>Overanxious, you are so thoughtful, I am rushing to catch a plane soon and I have no idea how to use the PMs function on this site…and, I was hoping maybe others would contribute too…</p>

<p>I know the senate was still in session today but if you’re hundreds of miles away and no TV in the office, it’s hard to get real time information - the daily brief online is updated once a day, etc. I wonder why we can get real time sports info online but no real time congress info?</p>

<p>Still, I am very interested in gaining an understanding of the process, so, when I get back on Wednesday I’ll work my way to PMs, o.k.?</p>

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<p>I don’t mind “talking” on this thread (and sympathize w/learning new computer technology…probably the computer gurus out there are laughing at hearing “PM” referred to as “technology”…but I’m as close to computer illiterate as you can get and still be able to use a computer!</p>

<p>Anyway…there actually are a number of resources for “real time” info on what’s happening in the hallowed halls of Congress…“today on the floor” on the <a href=“http://www.house.gov%5B/url%5D”>www.house.gov</a> home page; “today in the Senate” on the Senate page…most of the resources, though, are by subscription (and they aint cheap!)…another good resource is <a href=“http://www.cspan.com…and%5B/url%5D”>www.cspan.com…and</a> that one is free…</p>

<p>Anyway, the Senate is still “having at it”…today (Tues) they’re debating the deficit reduction/spending cut reconciliation bill…50-50 whether it will pass…tomorrow they take up whether to filibuster the defense bill(s)…in the background the “conversation” about what to do about the Patriot Act continues…</p>

<p>Have a good trip…“talk to you” when you return…</p>

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<p>The best way to understand what happened is that the Democrats killed the Patriot Act (lots of cheering from the left). As a result our various intellingence agencies will not be able to communicate with each other about information that they individually have that could be damaging to the country because of what has been referred to as “the Gorelick Wall”. That is, Jamie Gorelick (a clinton operative) decided that it was not a good thing for our intelligence agencies to talk to each other about bad things that bad people might be trying to do to the U.S. That’s what we’re back to. Time to party.</p>

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<p>Browninfall,</p>

<p>The voting was by no means strictly along party lines. Four Republicans voted against the extension in deference to principles that cannot remotely be characterized as leftist (Hagel of Nebraska, Murkowski of Alaska, Sununu of New Hampshire, and Craig of Idaho; Frist voted with them for procedural reasons). Two Democrats (Johnson of South Dakota and Nelson of Nebraska) voted to extend the provisions.</p>

<p>The problem you’re alluding to is unrelated to the provisions that sunset under the original act. Moreover, the Democratic leadership (and the Republicans I’ve named above) has offered a three-month extension of the controversial provisions, which would preserve the status quo while further refinements to the Patriot Act are discussed. If these provisions are so crucial to our national security, why let them expire? (Could the reason be that some people place a higher premium on the opportunity to demonize Senators for “killing” the act than they do on preserving it?)</p>

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<p>No doubt everyone has already heard/read the news that the Senate last night passed a six-month extension of the current law Patriot Act…regardless of an observer’s political views or judgments, it’s worth noting that the core of the Patriot Act was never in danger of expiring…most of it is permanent law…only 14 provisions would expire 12/31, and those 14 provisions are not relevant to communication issues between govt agencies…</p>

<p>As of this morning (it’s 4:30 a.m. Thursday, 12/22) there are still questions about what will come next in the Cong’l process…the House must agree to the Senate’s 6-month extension, and the President must sign the bill in order for it to become law. </p>

<p>The House has already adjourned until January 31, although the adjournment resolution allows for a “pro forma” session today (or any day except 12/25), and/or authorizes House leadership to call the 435 House members back into session, to react to changes the Senate might have made (did make) to any of the bills that were still pending when the House left town this past Monday morning…</p>

<p>I could (but won’t) guess what the House will do now that there are several “must” bills that require House action (e.g., defense spending, Patriot Act, deficit reduction)…that would get us into “pure politics” which is an area I decline to get into on these boards…</p>

<p>Hope OP and other commentators find this update helpful</p>

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<p>Overanxious, thanks, that is very helpful…but - I keep reading there are 16 provisions, not 14, and it’s the 16th one that would prevent federal law enforcement agencies from sharing intel - do I have this part wrong? </p>

<p>Last, would the House return to session before 1/31, and, if so, is there such a thing as a remote session or remote voice vote, or, do they have to physically return to the capitol in order to be “in session”?</p>

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<p>Welcome back, latetoschool…</p>

<p>First: my “trade press” talks about 14 provisions (the biggie among them is the one that requires businesses (libraries are the ones most often mentioned) to turn over their records (w/out warrants) to law enforcement when they say they suspect contact w/terrorists…I haven’t heard so much as a whisper about a problem w/various govt agencies sharing info…but as noted earlier, I’m not an expert on the law; I’ve only been watching its progress because of “procedural” reasons…</p>

<p>Last night, the Senate agreed to a House amendment to a Senate amendment (there’s a reason so many people equate watching law being made to watching sausage being made!) to extend current law Patriot Act provisions (all of them) for five weeks–til (I think) February 3, 2006…</p>

<p>No, there is no way either the House or the Senate can vote “by remote”…or by proxy, or any way but by physical presence in the Capitol (it’s a manual process in the Senate, an electronic key-card type process in the House). Both the House and Senate can be in what’s called “pro forma” session–i.e., officially “in session,” but the only business conducted is by unanimous consent…that means any member can object, but if they get UC, no member does object…the Senate uses UC frequently (you rarely hear about anything but the disputes, of course…but the Senate pretty much runs by UC)…the House uses it less often, but can & does use it occasionally…</p>

<p>No, the House will not return to DC prior to 1/31 (absent some kind of nat’l emergency; there are processes by which Congress can be called back prior to its scheduled return date, but it’s very uncommon and certainly won’t happen for the Patriot Act)…the Senate, however, comes back 1/18…there will be little (no?) legislative business prior to February…President Bush’s State of the Union speech is 1/31…Congress will start up “for real” after that…however, the Senate will start hearings on the nomination of Sam Alito to the Supreme Court…</p>

<p>Hope this helps…Merry Christmas!</p>

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<p>Anyone from Ohio know about your own Act?</p>

<p>What you think?</p>

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<p>“To be or not to be, --that is the question:–
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them?”</p>

<p>– From Hamlet (III, i, 56-61)
<a href=“http://www.allshakespeare.com/quotes/255[/url]”>http://www.allshakespeare.com/quotes/255&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Congress is going to come to a realization, one way or another.</p>

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<p>Overanxious, thank you for that, and Merry Christmas to you too!</p>

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<p>Found some info for you, latetoschool (which I didn’t read myself…I have to wrap stocking stuffers for my family’s stockings–a much more appealing task (to me, today) than plowing through Patriot Act info.</p>

<p>Anyway, there’s a ton of info on the House Judiciary Committee’s website: <a href=“http://judiciary.house.gov/Printshop.aspx?Section=44[/url]”>http://judiciary.house.gov/Printshop.aspx?Section=44&lt;/a&gt;...&lt;/p&gt;

<p>You should also take a look at the Senate Judiciary Committee’s website (to get there, go to <a href=“http://www.senate.gov%5B/url%5D”>www.senate.gov</a> and then click on “committees” and then on Judiciary Committee…accessing the House committees works much the same way, only start by going to <a href=“http://www.house.gov)%5B/url%5D”>www.house.gov)</a>…</p>

<p>I noticed the House Cmte website has the actual conference report (which will show you which provisions (and how many of them) would be extended, and what modifications were made to them relative to current law)…there’s also a bunch of press releases, which may or may not have info you can use in them…as I said, I only looked for sources; didn’t read the stuff myself…</p>

<p>Good luck, hope it helps, and have a wonderful holiday…</p>