As a parent of a current legacy applicant and spouse of a Trojan, I have to cast doubt that this is an isolated issue at USC. This may just be the tip of the iceberg of an ongoing problem in a broken system. The fact that waitlists and rejections have grown for highly qualified applicants with over 4.0 GPA’s and great SAT and ACT score is concerning. When my husband attended USC it was more open/available to a diverse population. But now the “competitiveness” feels more like exclusivity. I hope that I am wrong but it does appear like elitism. And, as part of the Trojan family we are angry that this happened.
What cost? This will go away as soon as the press moves on to something else. People taking money or giving money for special consideration has been going on since the beginning of time. Is anyone at all surprised? This won’t change a thing - if you love USC or Stanford or Wake Forest or UT etc, you will still love it. USC is about 40,000 strong each year, a couple dummies aren’t gonna throw it off track. People will likely give more money to try to clean up the mess of their hallowed institution to make it shine again. People with money can do that and the schools involved are generally people with money. If a person hated any of these schools before this happened, one will just still hate it (and incorrectly think it means gloom and doom, out of hope, not sensibility). Haters gonna hate. And of course thousands will incorrectly hang on to the reason they didn’t get in to these schools was because one or two evil students/parents took their spot.
If Sandusky didn’t take down Penn State, nothing will. UNC helping 3100 students get good grades with little work, University of Illinois scandal because of their clout list - applicants who got special consideration because of political connections, then all the fraternity messes. There are too many scandals to name, they just get pushed aside when the next one comes along. People didn’t run from those schools, applications grew after these scandals. I cannot imagine a single person getting their acceptance from Stanford, Wake Forest or USC or UCLA in a few weeks and thinking, “I’m not gonna attend because of what the rowing coach did.”
It was the parents and individuals at all these schools, not the entire school - that did wrong, and Singer, the ringleader of course. Of course they spread plenty of muck to go around per the Reuters article:
“The schools involved — Stanford, UCLA, Wake Forest, Yale, Georgetown, University of Texas, University of San Diego, USC — are not believed to have taken part in wrongdoing. The indictment documents, for example, suggest Meredith (Yale’s women’s soccer coach) accepted funds via a charitable organization and did not report any of the details of the plot to Yale officials, including payments. Other named in the indictment are current Texas tennis coach and former Kansas tennis coach Michael Center, Stanford sailing coach John Vandemoer, former Georgetown tennis coach Gordon Ernst, USC coaches and UCLA men’s soccer coach Jorge Salcedo. Parents across all eight universities named in the charges allegedly paid Singer nearly $25 million from 2011 to 2019 to admit students to universities through false athletic recruitment and to strengthen chances of acceptance by changing applicants’ SAT and ACT exam scores by bribing test proctors.”
Frankly, I am more stunned about SAT and ACT scores - people taking tests for them and paying people to change incorrect answers to increase scores…now that’s a conspiracy. We found those test centers scary as heck!
The actual #s displayed in the freshman profile do still signify that USC is succeeding in its goals toward broader diversification… both ethnically and in terms of other demographic factors like wealth, FirstGen, etc. While some continue to portray USC as the university of or for spoiled children, and today’s revelations clearly do not help that false historical perception any, the true #s are pretty staggering…
First-generation college-goers 17%
Scions (legacy students) 19%
Female 51% / Male 49%
Race/Ethnicity:
White 36%
Asian / Asian American 22%
Latinx / Hispanic 16%
International (student visa holders) 13%
Multiple Ethnicities 7%
Black / African American 5%
Native American or Pacific Islander <1%
21% of the freshman class received some form of merit scholarship, while 66% received some form of financial assistance (including those with merit). And 78% of that financial assistance was gift aid (either need-based grants or merit scholarships).
And here is the key factor that really dispels the notion that USC is all about elitism or the wealthy… USC currently enrolls more than 4,000 low-income undergraduate students (as defined by Pell Grant eligibility), far more than most top-level colleges and universities. Specifically, 21 percent of the currently enrolled undergraduates overall receive Pell Grants & are deemed from low-income backgrounds.
Today’s revelations highlighted at least 24 improper admissions over a five year span… but that was also out of a total pool of 44K+ admissions during that 5 year span. Basically… that’s around 5/10000ths of one percent. Hardly an epidemic. And to USC’s credit, they quickly fired all named employees today.
@blueskies2day The problem for USC is that it was more endemic than at any other institution and involves people at a high level of the administration (An assistant athletic director is a bit more than a coach in University hierarchy.). It also involves a Professor being at the payoff end. I have ZERO want to hear the President talking about USC being a victim,. The only real victims were students that did not get in because of these crooks and students who had to share classes with students who did not belong.
One just has to spend time on the USC campus if there are any questions about diversity. It is not your parents Buick as they say. It is an entirely different school, demographically speaking, than 20 years ago. Add to figures above that the Indian population is included in the white percentage. There are still a lot of kids with money, and that is true at any private school. I have seen elitism used frequently as an excuse for a lot of things one can’t access - clubs, sports, schools, etc. Sometimes it’s just too many great people/students/athletes, etc., - simple supply/demand, so competitiveness, but not elitism.
@blueskies2day Indeed.
My husband went to USC so naturally my children wanted to go there too. Last year my daughter applied and was denied.We took it in strides because we have heard how competitive it has become. However, these stories are like slap in the face for someone who worked so hard to have the 4.4 GPA, 1370 SAT and tons of EC’s. Though her SAT wasn’t that high but at least she took it herself.She could have spend more time studying if she wasn’t working fulltime in the summer and doing an internship at one hospital and volunteering at another while planning for ASB activities for school, or picking up trash at a local beach, or taking photos for homeless teenage moms, and working through her heart palpitations during swimming and cross country practices.
So while my daughter was changing bedsheets and bedpans for patients in the hospital for free and because she cares about people, USC rejects her and admits these people who must have some idea that they are not qualified.Or maybe they live in a different reality. A reality where you just throw money at people and problems until you get your way. USC, shame on you! What a legacy. So thankful that my daughter is elsewhere, thriving in a REAL world.
Do you all mean the international elite students being included as part of the diverse demographic? Let’s not forget that international students bring a lot of money to the school in full tuition. In the end this has happened for years, the only problem is that they got caught.
I am certainly not saying this admissions scandal mirrors the average student at USC or that it deserves to have its reputation attacked over it. I am saying it will be attacked. USC was already unfairly mocked as the University of Spoiled Children and these illegal acts did not help dispel that fake notion. There needs to be more housecleaning and oversight to clean this mess. Lynn Swann MUST go. This was too systemic for too long.
@1mo1bo close to 4000+ people with stats higher than you D’s did not get in. (4.0s with 99 percentile test scores which 1370 is well below) so I don’t think these couple of kids are the reason, the low SAT score is. Most kids have great ECs these days. It is competitive, one thing under someone else takes a kid out of the running.
@bluskies2day, I understand that. My point is that these spoiled kids took up spots from real hard working students and atheletes!
Read backwards and just saw this great post. @WWWard always keeping it real.
Thanks, @blueskies2day
And while clearly 24 or so USC applicants were directly harmed from 2014-2018 who would have gotten in without the fraud and deception that made such impossible, and while around 34% of those 24 (the average yield rate from 2014-2018) or around 8 kids would have likely actually then chosen to attend USC after getting admitted in the place of those fraudsters… the good news is that I highly doubt anyone will be so impacted this cycle.
It at least was announced in time… before the admission packets go out in a couple weeks. Rest assured that they have already started looking at every applicant recommended or identified as a recruited athlete by those who were fired today. You can bet that any such applicant will be scrutinized extensively. And if they can also identify any large donations from parents of such applicants into the same revealed accounts tied to those fired, you can bet that they will likely just reject any such applicant out of an abundance of caution. They will also clearly be looking at any child who may have applied (in the past or currently) of parents were just indicted. And I do expect retribution for any current student so affected and linked to this scandal. Sorry Lori, but your two current USC student daughters are likely going to return to a different USC reality post-Spring Break. Maybe they will even stop offering Mossimo clothing for sale at the USC Village Target.
There is tragically nothing that can be done for the two dozen or so rejected applicants already harmed in prior years… and even if there is no way of knowing who those 24 other admissions would have been, I do feel for any prior rejected applicant from 2014-2018 who may rightly feel slighted. But at least this particular abuse should have ended. If you are an applicant this cycle… all you have to hopefully worry about is a highly competitive applicant pool of people (likely in excess of 65K) just like you and all striving for those coveted 7800 or so admission packages (minus those already in from the January round). It’s a cruel competitive reality these days, and revelations like today’s only heighten the anxiety for everyone. But as @blueskies2day alluded to before, 88% of all USC applicants are going to feel that bitter sting of rejection. And this cycle, it will simply be due to this ultra-competitive environment.
I personally hope that those fortunate 12% finally admitted by month’s end are a good representation of a proper USC fit… both in terms of for the applicants themselves and also for the greater USC community. CC offers a nice sampling of those truly passionate about wanting to attend USC… so here’s hoping that USC realizes such and chooses wisely.
Good luck to all those waiting for news later this month…
@WWWard I totally agree with your comments but the real damage is the PR. My son has waxed poetically about his class and how awesome they are. From visits, talking to my son and reading in detail about USC I know they are doing the right thing in putting together unique folks who are not judged simply by numbers or bank accounts. But I want OTHER people to know that and this nonsense sets USC back. They need to make some draconian changes beyond those fired and do so quickly. A press release that keeps calling USC the victim is unnecessary and somewhat aloof.
USC is the only university that has administrator involvement and has the most faked qualified applicants this go around.This is just one “service” that was caught. Wonder how many more are lying in the shadows. Each name and their children will be linked to this scandal for years to come. How has the parents not forseen this? Or maybe this is just another sign of the defective thinking of the privileged: it’s ok as long as you don’t get caught.
@JohnGaltIII There is no question about the PR damage, especially since the media is not going to dive deep into the real #s. And it seems like a persistent theme… one new crisis or controversy every few months. I agree with the main elements of your concern. I have spent far too much time writing far too many posts over the past five years defending USC from some attack or another. I clearly prefer simply answering questions or offering advice or suggestions. I prefer the simple pro-USC posts. But USC also seems an easy target… gaining in popularity among applicants yearly and also having to turn more and more away - generating new sets of potential detractors in the process. Clearly, a lot of the angst and bitterness toward USC has historically been envy or jealousy driven. But as you say… USC also needs to stop feeding its detractors new fuel for the fire… and finally clean up its act in the areas most deserving of such… e.g. athletics.
I am new to CC and reading all the great conversation on this thread, Healthy discussion and is good. As a parent of a D who is waiting for the decision, I am really concerned about how USC is managed in recent times. This is not just one off scandal that has come out in recent times in which USC is involved. There was another last year (or a year before) where someone was involved in wrongdoing for years and management did not do anything about it. Do you guys think management did not know about this bribes? I really hope they did not otherwise it’s very troubling…
@1mo1bo Some people will do anything, and I mean anything for their kids. Not saying it is right in any way, but people with a lot of money and influence have those as tools to use that people without them cannot understand. The celebrity families wanted their kids at an elite school and close to Hollywood connections, others wanted perks from Yale or Wake Forest, UCLA, etc. 10 kids over years is not that many more than 4 kids over years - so I don’t see “the most” as being a distinguishing factor. While there was wrongdoing by those that took bribes/payoffs at each of the schools, don’t forget it was Singer, the parents, and SAT driving the corruption. Gotta put a lot of the blame where it should go. Of course the schools aren’t innocent, but after sending many many kids to college and being on different educational boards and online forums, I see the reason people often disparage a school isn’t out of personal experience but rather personal disappointment. Frankly, it is what drives the internet.
I honestly do not think that any admissions administrator knew of these bribes at any of the schools. I will say (since this is the USC thread) I do think it should be more embarrassing for USC at this point at least because of the number of fake athletes that were admitted and, frankly, they were admitted for strong sports at USC. Women’s soccer is terrific and obviously men and women’s water polo are both really strong programs. What might be funny is that if someone is admitted into any D1 school under an athlete exception rule they should be forced to play that sport for a minimum of a year! Parents wouldn’t be in such a rush to jump into this cheating scam and the kids sure as heck would know darn well it was a scam and they wouldn’t attend.
Do you think this recent scandal will affect the applicant pool/acceptance rate this year?