USC vs. Cheap State School

College Search & Lists
1

The deposit deadline is tomorrow and I’m currently torn between attending the University of Southern California and SUNY Geneseo with no idea how to make a proper decision.

I visited USC last week and was incredibly impressed by the campus and quality of life factors which would accompany my stay there (LA, weather, school spirit). Academically, I know that USC blows Geneseo out of the water, especially in my major (philosophy, in which USC has invested heavily over the past decade). There is also a distinct advantage in regards to internship opportunities, quality of instruction, and prestige in relation to the possibility of future law school admissions. I know that it’s often championed that my undergraduate school isn’t important when law schools make their admissions decisions, but I’ve heard personally from a number of law school admissions officers and lawyers in the corporate world that the prestige of an undergraduate institution can make a significant difference.

The only pro for Geneseo is its price - with my current financial aid, 4 years of school there will cost $26,000, as opposed to the $28k/year which I will be paying at USC. My finances are interesting because, despite my qualifying for almost the maximum amount of Pell grants (5815/5860), I have nearly $100,000 set aside for educational purposes as left to me by my grandparents. My expected debt upon graduation from USC would be about $15,000 in government loans, as opposed to the $75,000 which I would have in my account if I attended Geneseo.

Financially, it makes absolutely no sense for me to attend USC. But I’m afraid of Geneseo due to my own tendencies to slack off when not suitably challenged. In talking to current Geneseo students and looking at the rigor of their classes, I don’t know if I would be able to do the simple “get a 4.0 at the easy school and then apply to grad school”; I have issues with ADD and depression and I’m worried that I’d be unable to work hard unless I was forced to work hard, which I am fairly sure would not happen at Geneseo. Teachers of mine who are Geneseo alumni and who are aware of my academic proclivities have told me that it would not be a good fit for me and that I would be better suited at a school which afforded me more opportunities to apply myself, but it’s hard to turn down the opportunity to save nearly $100,000.

Pros and Cons list for those that don’t want to read my ravings:
USC pros: Location, internships, alumni network, honors program (I am in the Thematic Option), academic rigor, quality of life, law school matriculation into Gould
USC cons: Far from home (I live in upstate NY), expensive/debt on graduation

Geneseo pros: cheap cheap cheap cheap, close to home
Geneseo cons: not difficult enough, not part of the honors program, poor fit with school culture

I hate how whiny and privileged this situation makes me sound, but my being unable to stomach the idea of Geneseo is the result of a lot of soul searching. I’ve known quite a few similar individuals who attended similar/better schools (McGill and UVM Honors, for example) that went through the exact things that I am afraid of: they weren’t suitably challenged, they became depressed or drug dependent, and they ultimately dropped out. I’d love to just “put my nose to the grindstone” as suggested to numerous CC posters in similar situations, but I’m not sure if I’m capable of doing so.

Thank you in advance for the help, this is all really stressing me out (along with AP studying) to the point that I can barely write coherently (as I’m sure you noticed).

2

Where else were you accepted and their net costs???

Seems risky to spend your entire savings on undergrad, when your family is low-income (nearly full Pell).

How much debt will you have for USC? And law school???

Instead so spending $100k on USC, why not get on meds for ADHD?

3

USC will not magically make you put your nose to the grindstone if your tendency is the opposite. Your problems will follow you unless you address them.

4

If you are motivatd to go to USC go to USC. If you had won a scolarship to go to USC that only left 15k in loans. You would be so excited and eould have already signed up for USC. Well you did win a college scolarship. You won a $100,000 grandma and grandpa scholarship. They left you this just for this purpose. Grad school may or may not come. It is not for a house or a car. They wanted you to have a wonderful opportunity to go to the best college you can. USC is it. Honor your grand parents and go to USC. Honor your grand parents and make the most of your time there. Study hard. Go to professor hours. Get involved. Have the best life you can by starting at the best place you can at USC. That is why they left you so much. So you can go where you want, and have the best opporunity. Go to USC. And someday you will be a succesful USC grad. And you will have an important conversation with your son or daughter or gandchild. And you will tell them of how you got to go to USC. And you will tell them it is their time to go to USC and you are going to help pay. Because investing in your education is the best unvestment you can make. Just ask Warren Buffet.

5

Your teachers aren’t paying for your college, so it’s easy for them to suggest you blow your entire savings on an OOS school. Go to Geneseo and save your money.

Nobody at college is going to force you to work hard. You need to address those issues before you start.

6

@mom2collegekids the other schools I was accepted to (UVM, Northeastern, BC, Brandeis, Pitt, Tufts) range from around $8,000 less/year (Pitt) to $20,000 more per year (Tufts) as compared to USC. I consider the more affordable of those schools to be at the same level academically as Geneseo and as such it doesn’t make sense to compare them to Geneseo (Geneseo being dirt cheap).

Regarding the ADD meds, I have a family/personal history with substance issues (my own issues already err towards stimulants as a compulsive user of caffeine) and I do not think that even my education is worth the possible risk of addiction or even just the natural side effects of ADD meds (weightloss, loss of appetite, anxiety etc.). I tend towards hyperfocus when I’m working on things which I find very engaging (mainly essays) and as such believe that an engaging undergraduate program will actually be a boon to my studies.

@choirsandstages I see your point, but the issues I have with applying myself are actually directly related to how engaged/challenged I am academically. My tendency isn’t necessarily to avoid working hard; rather, it is to avoid working at all if I don’t find the work to be very challenging and mind-opening. It isn’t as if I think that easy courses are necessarily beneath me, but at some subconscious level I feel like working on something which is derivative and regurgitative is not worth my or my teacher’s time. No matter how often I tell myself that doing work and studying is important, or how negatively my lack of effort reflects on my report card, I find it impossible to sit down and focus. It’s something that really held me back during the college admissions process; my SAT scores were in the >99th percentile, my essays were unique and engaging, and my extracurriculars were fairly impressive on paper. Despite all of this, I was not even in the top 10% of my high school class, due largely to awful grades in electives classes where I just could not handle poor quality of teaching and curriculum.

What I have at USC is the opportunity to forego the classic “freshman writing class” and dive right into an intensive humanities based curriculum. I was reading abstracts of some of the papers which Thematic Option students write and they seem to be exactly the type of thing I can sink my teeth into: fresh, unique, and most of all completely original. That’s the kind of thing that really inspires me to work hard. Personally, it feels like the difference between doing a scientific lab where you measure the speed of a cart and calculate the acceleration versus taking part in completely original research so as to further some branch of knowledge. There aren’t too many opportunities for endorsed research in the humanities, and that is what USC, not Geneseo, offers me.

7

Your grandparents left you a college fund to go to college. Use it. Essentially you’ll be paying 4k a year for a program that matches exactly what you want. Thank your grandparents and honor their investment by taking every possible measure to control your add (try over the counter Lthyrosine , no addiction issues and it helps some people.) It will mean planning ahead, sticking to the plan, using evernote on your phone, learning about tutoring and resources (*and using them *), showing enough self awareness to go see your professor if you get a B (rather than thinking you’ll fix that C with a superb paper or a 100% on the next quiz), getting a tutor immediately even before the first grades for every 'Boring’class, etc.
Be a top philosophy student in an outstanding program. Make a difference in someone else’s life. Keep reading, a lot, all the time.
There are now excellent scholarships for law students with the skills above, and usc 's special humanities program is more likely to push you to achieve who you can become than Geneseo (which I really, really like by the way). Philosophy , in a world class department, can be transformative. It leads to other intellectual places than what Geneseo can, no matter how much I like Geneseo and wish it weren’t so.

8

I Love @MaroonDaddy 's message and find it very inspiring. I hear what you’re saying and hope that USC meets your expectations. I just think it might be unrealistic to think every single class at USC is going to be that perfect mix of characteristics that make you want to work hard. I agree w you about the stimulant medications. Have you had cognitive behavioral therapy (cbt)? I recommend you pursue that regardless of where you go.

9

Law school is expensive too. Seems like there should be options between Geneseo and USC. If your family does struggle financially I’d suggest going the cheaper option. Be a mensch. Be prudent. Save yourself money so you have options in life.

10

You have done a very good job of learning to understand yourself. It seems very likely
that you are academically “gifted”. Boring, poorly prepared classes probably seem almost painful. Many people can not really understand. You know USC is better for you. You get it.

@choirsandstages is right there will still be a couple of clunkers at USC for you to manage. But it will be a lot better. Learn as much as you can about giftedness and managing and taking advantage of it.

Gifted Adults Video sound familiar?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIS_MWdNZ-U

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/

http://www.davidsongifted.org/

A healthy diet, sleep, proper levels of magnesium (epsom salt foot bath), and adequate vitamin C and other vitamins, are helpful as well. Good luck at USC. Go Trojans!

11

Sorry for the typos and punctuation. I am typing quickly, and excitedly, on my phone at the bookstore. Excitabilities?

12

@choirsandstages, @MYOS1634 & @MaroonDaddy : thank you for the encouraging words. I feel as if I “know” that USC is the right choice, but my view of the situation is obviously tinted by my own preference for the school and my biological tendency towards shortsightedness as a teenager.

@lostaccount I appreciate the opposing view for its pragmatism.

Both sides have points and I have a lot of thinking/research/discussing to do before tomorrow.

13

Personally, I would go to USC solely for the alumni network. It’s definitely worth the premium over the SUNY school. In my area of the country, all the rich people went to USC, and they often bond over being Trojans. USC has the most school pride,and if you want to form connections solely by graduating from a certain school, USC seems to be the way to go. If you need examples, some of my schoolmates are getting internships at local businesses solely because of their parents’ alumni connections. Getting a job after law school definitely requires some networking, and after meeting quite a few USC alumni who are lawyers, I think it’s definitely worth it to go there

14

@lvgtc25 wrote

There’s nothing like taking high-stakes financial advice from a HS student with no real life experience of having to earn $100,000, no law/grad school admission experience, no law/grad school tuition payment experience, no job networking experience, and who hasn’t attended a day of college…

15

I registered just so I could respond to you, though at this point you may have already made your decision. I hope you are taking into consideration the tremendous resources USC has available to assist students with ADHD. That alone may be worth your added investment. Check out this web site if you haven’t already: https://kortschakcenter.usc.edu/

I also think you’re on track when you say you think you’ll love Thematic Option. I went to SC, and I actually dropped out of TO (partly) because it was too philosophy-minded for me. As a philosophy major, I bet you’d eat it up with a spoon!

Normally on these kinds of threads I side with the people saying to take the bargain option. But SC sounds particularly well-suited to your very valid need for intellectual stimulation and academic support. In some situations it makes more sense to pay up to get exactly what will serve you best.

And God bless your grandparents. What a wonderful gift to you.

16

@mylesparslow, I’d consider what limitations, if any, were placed on that $100k gift. What happens if you don’t use all of it for undergrad? Can you use it for grad school? Do you get to keep whatever you don’t use? I’m a NYS resident who was a full Pell student, too, many years ago. Starting your adult life with a college education and a ~$70k bank account is a huge gift. You can always choose to attend grad school later. If your 21-year-old self regrets spending down the entire account, it will be too late.