<p>Article in Above the Law.com site that USNWR will issue (or maybe it’s already published) a Law Firm Ranking publication. I’m sure that makes for interesting “watercooler” discussion at the law firms. If anyone want to link it up- feel free. </p>
<p>Any practicing attorneys want to give insight as to how this is viewed at their firms, please do so. May lead to some interesting info. and discussion on cc.</p>
<p>Fascinating. That same ATL article has two points:
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<p>They’re just a poor man’s version of the Chambers ranking from the point of view of law students. Maybe for clients they are useful in finding high quality non BigLaw firms (although i doubt it)</p>
<p>I think that those of us at Biglaw will be interested to see what the article says, but will largely dismiss the results. Biglaw attorneys in domestic and international M&A, project finance, bankruptcy, financing and securities practices, among others (as well as the investment bankers with whom we work), for example, are much more interested in viewing the League Tables that Thompson, The Deal magazine, Dealogicm Bloomberg and others publishe on a quarterly and annual basis. In fact, law firms advertise themselves to clients using facts from these league tables, and the Wall Street Journal, other financial press and legal newspapers report this information as front page news. Here are a couple of examples:</p>
<p>[Dealogic</a> 2009 project finance league tables - IFLR1000](<a href=“http://www.iflr1000.com/Article/2372523/Dealogic-2009-project-finance-league-tables.html]Dealogic”>http://www.iflr1000.com/Article/2372523/Dealogic-2009-project-finance-league-tables.html)</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.mergermarket.com/pdf/League-Tables-for-Legal-Advisers-H1-2010-Global.pdf[/url]”>http://www.mergermarket.com/pdf/League-Tables-for-Legal-Advisers-H1-2010-Global.pdf</a></p>
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<p>Both of these decisions make sense, which is probably why Chambers already uses this system. Vault is ridiculous, and their absurdly-precise (they report reputation scores to the thousandth) rankings are really only valued by law students who used US News to pick a college and law school and feel compelled to pick a firm using the same method.</p>
<p>Practicing attorneys don’t take vault seriously.</p>
<p>what I wondered was- </p>
<p>I’ll assume that the USWNR ranking will be viewed more intently by non-lawyers who may need to hire law firms in the future-- not just an individual looking for a divorce lawyer or “ambulance chaser”. But also used by small to mid size business owners that need legal representation for their company.</p>
<p>as we all know, some people will nit-pick to death USWNR rankings for colleges as well as law schools; so do you think law firms may change their ways to ensure they stay “on top” of the USNWR rankings?<br>
Never underestimate lay prestige. It may be the non-lawyer who chooses the law firm which represents them. So it is possible that the USNWR ranking may become more of an important factor than you might think as it will probably be geared to the non-attorney who may be looking to hire a law firm. Even with a “top-tier” designation, there may still be a way to distinquish oneself from the pack. That’s why it will be interesting to see the magazine issue with ranking.</p>
<p>anyway, as a non-lawyer–I think this development could be interesting.</p>
<p>For now, the USN rankings lump everybody into “tiers,” such that I don’t think there will be too much jockeying. If USN ever comes out with a true ranking, it might become influential within a few years, in which case people might start trying to game the system.</p>
<p>I also wondered if firms would “game the system” --as we all suspect colleges, law schools etc. have learned to game the system; so it seems plausible that law firms would follow along. </p>
<p>Did the USWNR issue come out yet? I just saw it mentioned on ATL but didn’t see any other reference to the ranking list in the media.</p>
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<p>I don’t think so. I doubt biglaw clients are going to hire firms by picking them out of a magazine. The real target audience is probably the law students who, unlike clients, know nothing about these firms and who want US News to tell them where to work, since it already told them where to go to college and law school. Vault is currently filling this role, so maybe US News resents that. To the extent that clients or anyone in the legal industry cares about rankings, they care about the Chambers rankings, which use largely the same methodology but are much more well-established and credible than USNWR.</p>
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<p>Lay prestige means little to nothing for law school, and even less for major law firms. Cravath doesn’t care if Joe the Plumber thinks they’re great, or even if he’s heard of them.</p>
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<p>I don’t know how you game a ranking system based on your reputation, other than by making shady deals with other firms to give each other high marks and your competitors low marks.</p>
<p>Who could care less about law firm rankings? Most law grads have no chance of getting hired by BigLaw if their lives depended on it.</p>
<p>if Joe the plumber has multiple plumbing supply stores around the country and becomes a multi-million dollar corporation, then Big Law firms may be a bit more interested in what Joe the Plumber thinks.
Never let arrogance cloud your thought process.</p>
<p>CLients do care about rankings when done well, for example, by Legal 500 or Chambers. These companies interview the lawyers, call clients and competitors, and do a serious job. Lawyers also view these rankings when preliminarily considering lateral moves. Each of the above groups has a large team of experienced people undertaking the rankings. US News has a long way to go to reach that level of credibility in this area.</p>
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<p>That’s probably not going to happen, and if it did, Joe would probably choose an attorney that someone he trusted referred him to, rather than what a magazine said. I think biglaw firms can pretty safely disregard whatever “lay prestige” USN might confer.</p>
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<p>Multi-million dollar corporations don’t care about USNews. As stated above, they look to other things. It’s not arrogance. It’s just the way it is. I’m not sure why you insist on viewing the USNews rankings as something important. They were barely a blip on the legal radar. Their fifteen minutes of fame have faded. They’re a non-issue. No one cares.</p>
<p>FH: I think the idea is that USN is hoping it will become a big deal over the next 5-10 years. They do have an excellent brand, and now they’re just trying to cross-sell it.</p>
<p>I understand what USNews is trying to do, but I don’t see them succeeding. Without a single, unified ranking, over-achievers and people obsessed with prestige won’t fetishize it into popularity. And without the detailed practice area tier descriptions, explaining why a firm ranked the way it did, USNews won’t beat out Chambers.</p>
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<p>The vast majority of Biglaw law firms don’t care about USNews, Chambers, Vault, Insiders Guide (a publication that used to be “influential” among law students) or any measure other than the current league tables. The only law firms who might care are actually the firms that aren’t as well regarded who might tout their “top” status on some list. Otherwise, you will never, ever see a Biglaw firm caring, speaking of them (other than as an aside) or using anything contained in these lists in their marketing materials. It is the current league tables that carry all of the weight, and that won’t change.</p>
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Apologies for my ignorance… but do you mean that biglaw folks don’t care about rankings (except when talking about baseball)? Or is there some kind of league table that I should be familiar with?</p>
<p>Sorry, but my experience is that many big law firms do care about the Legal 500 and Chambers rankings. Indeed, it is now rare, at least in Europe, for firms to make pitches without including some reference to the quotes bestowed upon them in these “guides”. League tables are important, but they are only applicable to certain areas of practice such as M &A, or capital markets. How do you do league tables for litigation or regulatory?</p>