Congratulations on both highly selective options. Do you plan on going to graduate school? If so, take the honors college now and save “prestige” for grad school. Also, remember that going somewhere like Duke is just the beginning of the competitive process. Many organizations/clubs/internships there are highly competitive. You will have to “try out” or interview and cross your fingers that you are selected to participate. At SC honors, you’re already at the top which is why so many opportunities and resources are available to you without the additional hassle of applying or auditioning. Google “regret Duke University” and “regrets full ride” and “regret honors college South Carolina” to get some insights among those who’ve gone before you. Take this with a grain of salt but I also found this on CC (Reasons Why You May Dislike Duke: Memoirs from an Unhappy Student): http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/duke-university/1974900-reasons-why-you-may-dislike-duke-a-memoir-from-an-unhappy-student-p1.html
I have never posted before but find myself drawn to do so here. Lesjubilants - congratulations on your acceptances to Duke, UNC, USC amounts others that you have posted about (and shared the rejections too Harvard and Yale) You are clearly a bright girl and you have shared your many interests of politics, women’s studies, IB, and now fashion. Many of your posts (including the ones about financial aid at UNC) have shared your concern about money and I applaud you for considering how this affects your future as well as your parents. I know you shared that your mother will be losing her job shortly on a thread. You sound like a thoughtful young lady. Having said that, you make sweeping statements and assumptions that are simply not true and you sound very focused on reputations, ranks, and what is number one and such. Please don’t major in something you don’t really want to do just because it is ranked number one. Major in what you love. Study what you are passionate in. Don’t go to a school because of its rank or reputation - go to the school that is the best fit for you, one that feels like home, one that will give you a solid foundation in what you want to study. Stop worrying about what other people think and whether you need to explain yourself - this is a reflection of your youth. I suggest you talk to your families, your guidance counselor, your teachers, your pastor/rabbi/spiritual counselor for support and guidance - they know you and other’s do not. College Confidential is a wonderful site and you can certainly gain knowledge - but you will get myriad different answers from people who truly don’t know you. I think it is quite haughty of you to say there are people “not so smart” at the non-honors college of USC. Geez - really??? Do you only judge or evaluate people by their GPA and 1540 SAT scores??? You talked in previous posts about not having the fancy and expensive college counselors at your NJ public school leading to interesting responses on that thread. Might there be people at universities who can’t afford the expensive SAT/ACT prep classes and didn’t quite have high enough scores for Honors College but are very smart and motivated??? There are wonderful and diverse people at USC and other colleges -don’t be so quick to minimize their accomplishments and goals. No doubt, you would be surrounded by many bright people at Duke/UNC or Brown if you get off the waitlist - but don’t assumed that there are not equally bright people at UNC, UVA, USC or any college. You will find your people wherever you go. Do you really mean that people at USC don’t have interesting stories??? OMG. EVERYONE HAS A INTERESTING STORY. We all have strengths, weaknesses, stories, life experiences - no matter where people go to college. Lastly, please don’t assume people that chose USC Top Scholar or Honors college did so because they couldn’t pay for a more elite school. I know MANY top scholars who turned down Duke, MIT and Harvard and could have paid easily. It was a choice. If you look at the Top Scholar picture book from this year, there are 3 from NJ (like you), but the kids were from PA, WI, TN, NC, OH, VA, MD, TX, GA, FL, MO, MA, IL, KY, FL, IL, NY, NH etc - all unique and special kids with their own stories/interests/goals - they certainly are not homogenous as you describe.
I personal think your “need for something better” attitude will be best served at Duke. Good Luck.
@fourparks I know, I know, I sound like a TOTAL brat (my mom actually called me an “entitled brat” last night). It’s just SO hard for me after hearing about ranks and prestige since I was extremely little, even from my own parents, to do a 180 and go to USC and need to explain to everyone the prestige. I started touring colleges when I was in 7th grade, then I got waitlisted basically everywhere prestigious except UNC and Duke, and now I’m panicking to make those work. I’m one of two kids in my school who got into an “elite”- one into Princeton, me into Duke. I feel like there’s even MORE pressure for me to attend one of these schools. And, as someone mentioned, I have no actual concept of what debt actually is except that it’s bad and I won’t be able to buy $70 sneakers. A friend of mine who’s majoring in economics did some rough math for me, and he started talking about interest rates. This is so dumb, but I didn’t even think about interest on loans at all.
It’s really not my intention to sound bratty, I think my desperate, confused, and lost tone doesn’t quite translate well (and that’s what I am, I promise, not entitled like my mom accused). I loved all the Top Scholars that I met, but I don’t want it to be just them, you know? I come from a very small, traditional, white-bred town where there’s not many cool and smart people to be friends with, absolutely no one to date, and I’m just scared that it’ll be the same thing at USC, no diversity or kids who escaped war-torn countries or started charities or grew up in France or whatever it may be. I KNOW that’s not true and that there are super interesting people (I spent Top Scholar weekend and the weeks after GUSHING about them and how cool they were) and that I don’t need to be friends with all these weird people to be educated and successful, but there’s 18 years of pressure on my head to go to the highest-ranked school and 4 years of fantasizing about getting drunk on cheap wine and having intellectual conversations on my Harvard dorm room floor. I’ve spent the past 4 years in classes with people who thought that Dublin was the capital of France (yes, actually) and have never read a book for school, and it scares me a TON that non-honors classes will be like that and I’ll be the only one talking in a class of 28. It’s really brought me down in high school, but I’m assuming it’s different in college? It’s just so confusing to me, I wish someone would come out of the sky and tell me what to do.
(Also, just to clarify, when I talk about the not-so-smart outside of the HC, I specifically meant the frat boys who bash beer cans against their head, wear MAGA caps without knowing a thing about politics, disrespect women, and then post about it on Instagram. I know this happens everywhere, including elite colleges and probably most notably at Duke, there’s just the deeper southern stereotype at USC. I also have been talking to a couple people from Capstone who seem really cool, so that was kind of a brief statement that should’ve been explained more.)
@lesjubilants You have way too many preconceived notions about people both in your own town, school, and elsewhere. You need to work on that. There are interesting and smart people everywhere. And they are not all on elite schools or honors programs. Go find them and stop being so stuck on yourself. Open your mind.
Oh my - where to start. I am sorry that you have been raised to believe your self worth is dependent on the supposed prestige of an undergraduate degree. One of the most successful persons I ever met graduated from a mediocre school with a 2.5 GPA. Super successful in his business and every other area of his life. You continue to swing around these offensive statements that lump everyone into an unsatisfactory category while lifting yourself up as an elite. No doubt - greek life at all colleges can have issues and struggles. But there are many amazing greek students who are very interested in SERVICE, who focus on their studies and are not smashing beer cans on their heads. Did you know there are many Greek groups that are dry? Did you know there are Greek groups that are pre-med groups and really focus on their education? Greek men do not all wear MAGA hats and greek folks can have many different backgrounds and political beliefs. You talk about Greek life “most notably at Duke.” Are you such an expert on Greek life that you are truly able to compare Greek at Duke vs Greek at UNC vs Greek at USC vs Greek elsewhere?? You are making absurd and rude generalizations. If you dislike the “deeper southern stereotype of USC” - then USC is not for you. Are you even aware of how many OOS students there are that attend USC.? Do you really want to start off your college experience making more and more offensive statements??? And by the way, if you don’t want to just hang out with the Top Scholars - then don’t. Meet other people, join a group, join a club, join a book club, play an intramural sport. If you are so concerned that the quality of student at USC is beneath you, then really - go to Duke. You will not be happy at USC.
@lesjubilants you seem to have an unrealistic view about what actually goes on at Duke. Yes it’s a great school…lots of driven students etc…but the two kids from our HS who got in ED …they are smart kids, but hardly the type to sit around having intellectual conversations in their dorm room. My family member at USC honors… can discuss art history for hours… on a Friday night.
Why will you have to explain the prestige? And to who? What is there to explain… and why? This seems to be what’s bugging you.
You appear to want bragging rights at a top university so that you can earn “likes” on social media (sorry). Why do you prefer that over prestigious opportunities handed to you at USC due to the special programs you were accepted to?
I think the decision really comes down to whether you want to take the financial risks associated with going to Duke. Most people here are going to tell you that it’s not worth it. They might be right, but they might be wrong. There is some value in attending an elite institution.
A part of me thinks that you only live once, and Duke IS affordable and it does seem to have more of what you want, it’s just very expensive. If your parents are willing to bear that risk with you by co-signing loans, then you have a big decision to make. Are you sufficiently confident that you will earn enough money after graduation to be able to pay off these kinds of loans and live independently in the lifestyle that you want. Life is full of risks, and taking none of them is one approach. However, taking some calculated risks is another, often more fruitful approach.
If you really understand the risks to your future lifestyle. If you really understand what your expected salary is, what your expected loan payments are, and how long you will have to make those payments, and you still want to take those risks. Who is anybody to tell you that you shouldn’t. It’s your decision.
And one more thing - the high school you have listed in the top scholar candidate book was listed in Niche on August 8, 2017 as the 70th best high school in NJ. Highly ranked, A+ in teachers, and consistently high performing high school in probably one (if not the best) states for public education. I am quite certain that students at your high school are reading books.
@fourparks I’m sorry, did I say ALL Greek life? No. I specifically said “the frat boys WHO”, referring to a subsection who performs specific actions, not an entire group. I’m considering joining a business frat, I know people in Jewish frats, etc. But ask your child to show you Total Frat Move on Instagram, and then you’ll understand what I’m talking about. My best friend was drugged (from jungle juice, the collective punch that many people drink from) at the same Penn State frat that does over 20,000 hours of community service collectively, so don’t use philanthropy as a coutnerargument to baffoonary. Similarly, a friend of mine goes to UVA, joined a low-tier frat that’s not really into partying, and did cocaine as part of his pledge a few weeks ago. Sorry, but I’d classify that sort of group behavior as not-so-smart. My (Indian) exboyfriend, who goes to UNC, was rushing frats and repeatedly experienced racism not only from individuals, but from the frat as a whole when he didn’t get bids because he was a “sand-n****r”. Modern Greek life (not including purely service groups and pre-professional frats, and again, not to what I was referring) is getting worse, encouraged by social media accounts like the one I mentioned above.
If it seems like I’m lumping people into a group, that’s your problem. Clearly not every frat boy rapes girls and downs bottles of vodka, not every non-HC kid is such frat boy (otherwise the world would be in shambles lol), and not every Duke student is a future Nobel Prize winner. Every top scholar is brilliant (might not have a tragic story or world go experience to write a memoir about though…god knows I don’t, and that’s okay) and every USC student has something to contribute, whether it is brains or humor or looks or a talent or a video of them drinking tequila from a funnel.
@lesjubilants I hear you…clothes are important to me, too! (Seriously…one of the reasons I like having a nice income is to buy nice clothes.) But think about this - in addition to having more money to buy fancy clothes now if you go to USC, you’ll also have more money to buy nice clothes in the future, too. I currently have around $35K in debt from undergrad and grad school, and my monthly payment is about $450. It’s doable on my salary, but that’s a nice chunk of change that I could be spending on designer jeans and boots (or, you know, saving, lol.)
Even if you find a way to borrow $100K, that’s a $1,150 a month payment over 10 years, or nearly $700/month over 25 years. That is a LOT of money. That will impact pretty much all of your life’s decisions for the first 10-25 years of your adult life - what kind of apartment you can rent or house you can buy; what kind of wedding you’ll have and when you can have kids; whether you take the job you really like or the just-OK job that pays a bit more; and yes - what kind of clothes you can afford to buy for yourself! That is life-ruining amounts of debt, especially just at the undergrad level for someone potentially interested in an MPP.
You don’t need to explain your college’s prestige or your choice to anyone. I know it seems like that’ll be a big part of your life now while you’re in the last semester of high school, but trust me, once you go to college people will care a whole lot less, and once you graduate from college people won’t care at all.
Let me tell you that college students EVERYWHERE get drunk on cheap wine and have intellectual discussions on their residence hall floor. I went to a small women’s college in Atlanta - great school, not as prestigious as Harvard - and we did that; the students at Penn State where I was a postdoc did it, too. USC’s class of 2017 freshman had an average SAT score of ~1260 - which puts roughly half the USC undergrad population in the top 15% of SAT test takers across the globe - and an average HS GPA of 4.04. Even the non-honors kids are very bright, intelligent, high-achieving students.
And even if it is just the Honors College students…so what? The Honors College at USC is the same size as some medium-sized SLACs.
It sounds like you actually really like - maybe even love - USC and that it’s an excellent opportunity for you, both academically and financially. You should go there. This prestige thing that’s stressing you out right now will not matter to you in as little as six months’ time, definitely not in a year.
I thought rankings didn’t matter? @fourparks
And, trust me, they are not reading books. My AP Lit class has 28 students in it, and I and two other students are the only ones who participate, and my teacher complains about it on the daily. He gives biweekly reading quizzes and shows us the grades… 3/4 of the class gets failing marks.
You will find this behavior at all schools… unfortunately.
Four years go fast. If you go to Duke be prepared to choose a major leading to a lucrative career. You will need it to pay back your loans. My coworkers daughter attended Duke. She now works for a nonprofit earning a small salary…
I don’t mean to sound snippy… but I am not convinced that you have the maturity to accept what USC has to offer.
@lesjubilants I have been following this thread as I saw you on the UNC site. I will tell you that you will find so many different people at all the schools you are looking at. Each university has greek life but you can choose not to participate in that. While my son goes to UNC, my friends daughter goes to USC and she is graduating in May. She spent the last year traveling abroad. That experience she had sounded amazing. So let me compare my son (UNC) with the USC child and her college experience has outweighed my sons. Let me tell you why!!! My son doesn’t look for opportunities as I guess you can call him lazy and my friends daughter has seized every opportunity she could. The point I am trying to make is that whatever school you decide to go to you will succeed as you seem like a go getter!!! As a mom with 2 kids in college, I would tell my children to take the money and run! Go where you will not accumulate debt and be grateful. You will not regret your choice later in life.
@lesjubilants is UNC still an option? Would you have less debt than Duke?
Just trying to consider all factors: financial, prestige, what others think of me, what I’d think of myself, stereotypes, what I thought I wanted from college, what I can get out of college. Neither Duke nor USC were anywhere near my top choices to be honest but I am blessed to have the opportunity to make a decision between them, especially when many I know are taking out loans to go to our local state college. If it seems like I’m focusing too much on the stereotypes/external perception (a demonstration of lack of maturity), that’s kind of just where the discussion went. It’s primarily a financial decision and my parents just informed me they’re not signing more than 40k worth of loans, a hard shift from their previous stance, and I just read a thread about Duke that someone linked. I don’t really think I’d like anything about it except the name on my degree, the campus, and the major I could pursue. Kind of shocked me to read of the social hierarchy/social scene (again, wasn’t my first choice and was planning on going to admitted students day later in the month). Duke also has the stereotype of snobby and competitive rich kids (which, according to that post, seems to have a little more weight), which i should’ve mentioned in my original post as a parallel to my now infamous “not-so-smart” stereotype.
I don’t think anyone should totally dismiss stereotypes when considering college; after all, you get lumped in with the stereotype as soon as you put your deposit down. Money reigns supreme in this case though
@twogirls Not really. My parents can see taking out some loans for Duke over USC, but not for UNC over USC Honors College, even though it has the program I want. If nothing changes in financial aid it would be about 70k of debt for UNC and 100k for Duke
That’s way too much debt for an undergraduate education.
It’s ironic… everything you say you want… prestige, opportunities, internships, intellectual conversations… you will have at USC. But you won’t take it…
Yeah, you’re right. I said that in my original post, should’ve made a bigger deal of it myself. Just doesn’t have the “prestigious” academic program that I want, but I’m either doing IB which is really amazing or I’ll make my own major at this point and tailor it to what I actually want to do. Even if it’s useless for employment I’m not paying for it haha @twogirls
Nothing is useless for employment. The opportunities that you take advantage of will be important. The four years go fast.
Yeah, fraternities at Duke never engage in racist or bad behavior. That never happens at a “top school.”
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-frat-sorority-offenses/