UT (Austin) v Syracuse for BArch

DD26 has most of her decisions and has it narrowed it down to UT-Austin v Syracuse (she is still waiting on CalPoly SLO (which seems unlikely as she wasn’t in on the first wave), Cornell and ND).

We live in TX, so in-state tuition (which can be locked)/living at UT for all 5 years of the Barch we’ve estimated at 187K. Syracuse gave her the Orange award for 32K/year, but tuition increases/travel/living we’ve estimated around 389K for all 5 years.

Both schools have highly regarded BArch programs and Syracuse might have a bit of a major edge but UT has an overall edge in “prestige” factor.

Because UT was a reach (DD was not auto-admit at top 7% and even had she been, Arch is one of the hardest admits to get), she cast a wide net and we visited many places. She fell in love with vibes of both CalPoly and Syracuse.

My husband and I both went to UT, so she has grown up visiting, going to games, and always had UT on her list of desired schools - but because she was not auto, she stopped hoping for it because she really did not think it was going to be a choice.

As for her preferences, she does not want to be involved in Greek life, wants a school with a good sports atmosphere and a beautiful campus in a fun city (she likes big or small). She also really wants to get out of Texas and do something new, be in a place with a different culture (and weather). She wants a diverse campus (we are in a very homogenous suburb).

There is enough money saved for either school to be funded (barring a stock market crash, tuition skyrocketing or her losing her scholarship). However she would be able to keep any money left over and there is quite a large difference in cost. The pressure of keeping a 3.0 for the Syracuse scholarship is something I am also concerned about. She is a great student but I know architecture is very demanding and grades can sometimes be subjective depending on professors. Without that scholarship, she’d have to take out loans to finish her degree. Architects don’t have massive salaries and average between $50-70K out of school.

Additionally, the move to a different state would necessitate changing doctors for some chronic health issues she deals with and the inability to come home often or get support easily if needed. It is a lot to manage and that would add more pressure for her in a new school/area.

(Oh, and her BF is going to Cornell, so even though she says it’s not a factor, he will be a 1 hour car ride away versus a plane ride.)

She is leaning Syracuse with her emotions, but her head (and her financial advisor Dad) feel like UT is the smarter choice. She is very conflicted and we are all a little stressed about how to help her make the best decision when there are so many variables and unknowns. I’m also a little concerned that if she hates architecture for some reason and wants to switch majors, she would be overpaying for her second choice major of Political Science at Syracuse and would have no money left if she wanted to pivot for a grad or law school track. UT gives her the option to transfer fairly easily into a Liberal Arts major at a low cost with money left for post grad life.

Any advice for us or her would be greatly appreciated!

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This does not describe Syracuse, New York. The partying–and Syracuse students engage in a lot of partying–typically occurs on campus or in the area next to campus. The city of Syracuse is depressed and depressing.

Cornell has a strong BArch program.

The difference in cost between Syracuse & UT-Austin cannot be justified. Also, most high school romances end soon after entering college so that could be a concern. The overcast weather in the Syracuse, New York area triggers depression in some.

If determined to attend Syracuse University, ask for increased financial aid as Syracuse University is the poster child for offering increased financial aid/scholarships to get kids to attend. However, if your daughter has any semblance of Seasonal Affective Disorder, then Syracuse would not be a good location for her.

Did your daughter apply to Syracuse in large part to be near her high school boyfriend ?

P.S. Just reread your post. The chronic health issue should be given serious thought if environment plays a factor. And, of course, changing doctors is, as you noted,a consideration.

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Other than getting out of TX, it seems to me that UT has literally everything she wants in a college. I would have a very hard time justifying the price differential to attend Syracuse. Having some money left would be great to use should she want to change majors and continue her education or to help her start her adult life. (If she ultimately gets into ND or Cornell it might be a slightly different conversation IMO.)

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One is $200K less. You’re not going to be in a more prestigious or less prestigious situation. It’s architecture.

I’m an SU alum - but I’d ask, can you afford the $200K just because she wants to leave Texas - which is a very big state - btw.

Greek life - SU is big in a it.

Good sports - SU stinks (right now anyway)

I think SU is a nicer campus than UT - but SU is not in a fun city. You’ll have zero interaction with the city whereas UT is boom, right there.

UT Austin is more diverse but SU is very diverse.

Taking the boyfriend out (and they’re both likely to find new partners) and I’m an SU alum but it doesn’t seem to be much of a contest - especially with architecture a brual major and scholarship risk.

Everything you said she wants - is not SU.

Good luck.

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I agree with the assessments that for $200k, UT seems like a MUCH better alternative especially since almost everything else about the school/program is a fit. One thing that might help in the discussion is to note just how far that $200k can go. She could, in theory, fly to Ithaca monthly for 4 years at $1k per flight and it still work out to being $150k less than paying Syracuse tuition. I’ve found that putting a real value on the $$$ can help with the perspective for my kids.

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Another vote for UT.

I did masters work at Syracuse and lived in the area for 4 years. The most abysmal weather of anywhere I’ve ever lived (and I’ve lived all over). Not just cold and snowy in the winter but grey and cloudy nearly year round. Not a chance I would pay more money for Syracuse over UT.

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Get her excited for UT.

I’m not completely against paying more for a “better situation” but $200K is a LOT and I’m not convinced it’s academically or environmentally a better situation.

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No, interestingly enough she suggested he look at Cornell bc it was her dream arch school since finding out it had the #1 program in 7th grade. He visited, loved it and got in ED.

Syracuse was on her list bc we were trying to find the best 5 year BArch programs besides UT and it has a great one.

The SAD is definitely another worry of mine and comes up in conversation with anyone who has ever lived in the area.

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I whole heartedly agree with all of those points. (Interestingly enough she says if she gets into Cornell she probably wouldn’t choose it because of the cost.)

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Thank you for the alum insight! I think I made her visit to Syracuse more fun than it would normally be by finding fun restaurants and taking her on a day trip to Cornell - all with a gorgeous falling snow background. :grinning_face:

That’s so true about the flights and putting a $ value on those kinds of line items. I’m guessing even if they stay together they would barely have time to see each other with school/activities and planning trips to visit each other would probably work better anyway.

Thank you for this. She loves the idea of living where it snows, but we are more familiar with Colorado winters and their sunny skies, so I do appreciate another data point for her to hear about the clouds and grey skies in Syracuse.

I don’t disagree with what anyone says on above, trade-offs, etc., etc.

But his is a very good point if she REALLY wants to go there and are willing to consider making it work for her and she is REALLY in love with it, etc., etc., etc. (and isn’t the boyfriend). There was the NY Times (?) I think the article was even about SU last year. They were giving lots extra money to kids at the last minute to kids who didn’t even ask is my recollection. You may be able to get a non-negligible amount more money from them.

I am assuming Austin isn’t far from home, if she doesn’t have to switch doctors (unless we are just talking about worrying about prescribing privileges?). So I get her need to “go away” to a great extent. Syracuse will feel VERY different from suburban Austin! And obviously, UT is almost all in-state kids, and Texas is enormous and very diverse, but the USA runs very differently, and I think you learn a lot being away in that regard, too. (though maybe not 200k worth:)

I agree on boyfriend ideally not being part of the equation given demands or arch major and Cornell (no matter major) this is VERY unlikely to last to Christmas, never mind beyond. I would be surprised if either can even have a car and there are surely buses, but I suspect not super fun. I don’t even think train goes to Ithaca?

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We did take her down two days after she got accepted to tour dorms and eat her favorite Tex Mex there. :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: I keep reminding her that good tortillas will be hard to find in upstate NY!

I really don’t know what would be the “best” situation for her and it’s very hard to justify the cost without a big differential one way or the other like you said.

She really liked how personalized it felt at Syracuse (she exchanged emails with them, did an interview with the Asst Dean, met with multiple people when we toured) and I think they made her feel seen and wanted. While we did tour UT with a current student and DD26 seemed excited by the possibility of going there, that was last year and there has been no other contact or interaction with the arch school since. She is signed up for an admitted arch student orientation at UT in a few weeks, so I’m hopeful she will get a better feel and sense of connection.

We want her to feel good about her choice. It’s such a big decision for an 18 year old and I appreciate each of these responses so that she can have as much info as she can!

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We did read that NY Times article and she has decided to email admission for reconsideration for a larger award. It is worth a shot.

We are in DFW. Her doctors can see her in-state via zoom and prescribe meds/send meds to UT’s health center but can’t do any of that if she goes out of state.

She has expressed the desire to leave Texas permanently whether now or after college, and I get that she wants to start ASAP. I get that and agree there is value in being in a different place that maybe feels more like “home” than your actual home.

Neither she nor the boyfriend will have a car. Buses were not at good times. Not sure about the train. When we were there we had to Uber to Cornell at $75 each way. That’s another good line item on the spreadsheet of potential costs!

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not as bad as I thought actually!

I have a kid in Rochester - there is a train that goes from there to Albany, not super frequently, but Amtrak trains are pretty nice in the northeast (though not as nice as Boston-DC routes), but not sure stops in Ithaca - easily googled!)

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There is no train in Ithaca.

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Ithaca is nice - but clearly this is a bf play - and I get it.

My daughter went to Charleston; her HS bf to Denver. Now, they are together in Denver but that’s not the norm for sure.

Boys - are well - boys - and Cornell will have a lot of girls for him. That’s how it usually (not always) works.

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Ah, thanks for confirming no. But she can go to beautiful Utica :rofl:

Or, more positively, Toronto.

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She’s never been to Canada! She also has a friend that will be at Marist, would probably be easier for her to get there than Ithaca! :grin:

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