First choice was Stanford, but since that didn’t happen, looking for advice on where DD should attend. Love the CS program at University of Washington, and getting direct admit is amazing, however, not sure she’ll love the size. She might want to minor in Creative writing. Also looks like you need 87-90 credits of CS out of 180 at UW , but only 36/37 out of 120 at W&M – so that W&M leaves a little more room to squeeze in a minor – but probably not as intensive a CS program. She goes in with either 35 (UW) or 28(WM) AP credits. Also looks like William and Mary might be closer to Stanford in campus/dorm life. Any input would be welcome!
UW has a top CS program and their grads do very well in tech (as one of the top CS schools would). Yes, it is huge.
How much does she love CS? That is how I would answer it.
Direct Admission for UW is the key. 2 years ago that program admitted the best 1000 freshmen CS hopefuls and from those 2 years later took the top 300 into the program. Glad to hear of the direct admission option. UW is the higher ranked program for CS and Seattle is a mecca for top tech (MS and Amazon).
Check the progression requirements for each. Which coast does she prefer? Have her write out the pros and cons for each and study them for a week before she announces her decision.
My daughter graduated from UW. She had wanted a smaller school too…her second choice was Bryn Mawr!
In the end, UW had what she needed academically, and ultimately she found the atmosphere was great for her too. She is not at all extroverted, but was able to find smaller communities within the school that suited her well. It’s so easy to get around Seattle from the school, which opens up options for many activities.
And truly tough to beat CS direct admit at UW.
Direct Admit for CS at the University of Washington is a big deal. Congratulations !
As to whether or not it is the best fit for your daughter really depends upon several personal factors including how much does she love CS ?
If computer science is roughly 1/2 of the bachelor’s degree in the field at UW and a little under 1/3 of the degree at William and Mary, I think that is a reasonable rough indicator that a typical person majoring in computer science at UW will come out knowing about 50% more computer science than the same person would while majoring in computer science at William and Mary.
Beyond that, it depends how many computer science electives William and Mary offers, that are not required but that could be taken to correspond to the additional topics covered at UW.
One can continue learning in any field beyond undergrad, of course.
Still, if your daughter is committed to computer science, I think UW is the better option.
It is unfortunate that gender should play into this at all, but I think that a young woman is better off being as technically advanced as possible when she graduates. (I write this as a woman in a STEM field.). In future years, this may matter less, but there is certainly a lot of publicity about the poor treatment of women in tech companies. Advanced knowledge serves as a partial shield from this (but only partial). I look to the situation to improve, but four years is a short time horizon.
Best wishes to your daughter!
One obvious point is these schools are 3,000 miles apart. Not sure if that makes a difference. They are also quite different in size and surroundings.
William and Mary is a true residential, liberal arts school in that she would need to take more classes outside of her major. If she comes in with credits, she could still take more in major, so then the number of electives would be worth looking at.
I work in high tech and the CS students that can think and work more broadly are often the ones that move ahead, so I think her inclination to spread her wings a bit academically is good.
Good luck.
Those schools are so different I have a hard time believing she could visit both and not have a preference.
Computer Science at UW is in the school of arts and sciences, so she will have liberal arts general education courses to take. Whether that’s enough to “spread her wings” so to speak you would have to look into more detail.
I’d go with the Seattle UW (or the WI one- know about both of those). Excellent for CS and a great place to be. Different cultures on the east and west coasts so that is a real consideration. Campus culture counts a lot- life is so much more than one’s major. btw- quarter/semester credit comparisons.
Getting a job in Seattle does not need going to school there. Son from that other UW is now in Seattle- had honors math major (included some grad level classes) then added CS major to it. But- his UW is in the top tiers for CS as well. Son told his aunt he would choose UW (Madison) over Stanford- became a moot point.
Your D needs to decide which campus culture suits her most. She should not worry about a large sized campus. She also should be able to take her writing courses at either place. Not sure how those schools do it but UW-Madison only has comprehensive majors, no minors. Not a big deal as minors just mean fewer courses, ie less depth.
There is no rule that one can’t take more courses than required in one’s major that I ever heard of. Your D needs to look at required and available courses- with semester equivalents for a quarter system. She may find cross listed math courses in the mix. I’m sure that as a public flagship UW (WA) will allow for just as much of a liberal arts education- it just has a lot more to choose from.
This is the key point. It doesn’t mean that she should choose UW over William and Mary. She may want to learn a lot of stuff that she couldn’t fit in with the requirements of a UW CS degree. But this is a very personal choice for your daughter, and I think that there are pros and cons for each approach.
My own D1 studied computer science, taking roughly the minimum and spent a lot of her time studying her other interests to get the well rounded education that she wanted. She got a great CS job for 2 years after graduation and is now in a excellent PhD program.
Freshman Direct Admits to CS are a small group in a relatively small department at Washington, which may help overcome issues related to the size of the university, and she will have world class CS facilities, resources and expertise available to her from the moment she arrives on campus.
I recently came across this quote from Prof. Ed Lazowska (Bill & Melinda Gates Chair) in a Quora article, “At the University of Washington we have two degree programs: a B.S. in Computer Science offered through the College of Arts & Sciences, and a B.S. in Computer Engineering offered through the College of Engineering. … It tends to be easier to dual-major from Computer Science, because there is heavy overlap in the distribution requirements with other A&S programs - we have lots of dual majors with music, art, math, biology, linguistics, [etc.].”
At a school like the UW, there are hundreds of majors, minors and concentrations available (and many departments besides CS are world class in their own right).
Are you instate at the UW?
Congratulations and good luck!
As someone who used to hire CS grads and my husband continues to do so, there is a big difference in the actual comp sci degrees at these 2 schools as mentioned by others above. You may want to look at the options and required course work side by side. My DH has a BA in comp sci (and linguistics) and a MS in software engineering. I have a BS in comp sci and a BS in math. We were doing the same job at the same pay level for a while. And I’m not saying one is better than the other. Our BA CS grads tended to be hired for different things than those with deeper tech education. I actually think I would have enjoyed a BA program much more but my college options were severely limited by my parents. And it had nothing to do with school name at all. We knew which programs were the most technically rigorous. Many were state schools with engineering programs. I also think a BA program is better for someone who is more unsure about what direction they are heading.
That said if you are getting in state tuition for UW, that would be pretty compelling for me. If she wanted to stay another semester to cover more of another subject like creative writing it would still be cheaper and she’d have the more rigorous degree.
Computer science and computer engineering are two different fields. Think software/hardware. It gets confusing because some companies call a software developer a software engineer. Semantics, sigh.
Very important to find out the courses one can take in math and computer science at each school. btw- different schools offer different amounts of material for a given CS class. Friend covered more material as a TA in a quarter class than she was expected to teach in a semester class at a podunk U. It is a lot easier to have a good background without needing to catch up, although CS lends itself to self teaching (son does that, and reminded me he is in development, not research)
Computer Science and Computer Engineering are not that different at UW.
- CE has college of engineering general education requirements - including a capstone engineering project
- CS has college of arts and sciences general eds
- both have basically the same core courses, and what is only required for one degree is usually a valid elective for the other degree
- CS has direct to major as an admissions option, CE only has direct to college
- internship and employment opportunities are great for both
We’re in-state for UW – she has not visited William and Mary yet --we head out for new-admits day in so she’ll definitely be checking it out – we have already visited UW.
William and Mary does offer a BS in Computer science, and it does have a grad program as well – it is just a very small department – in the top 50 nationally, though. All the teachers would know her by name, and the average class size is 14. She wants to get great theory and likes coding for its own sake, but is most interested in game design.
Thank you for all the input.
@wis75 Great point about the semester vs. quarter credits. W&M’s semesters vs. UW’s quarters – both translated to quarters make the degree’s closer to
to graduate 187 credits at UW = 181 at W&M
needed in CS to major 87-90 UW = 54-57 at W& M
benefit from AP 35 UW == 42 at W&M
Top 10 or 20 is vastly different than top 50 in caliber. There are advantages to larger departments as well. Consider the available math and CS courses.
Be careful of the semester/quarter difference. 1 semester credit (as at W&M) = 1.5 quarter credit (as at Washington). W&M requires 120 semester credits to graduate, while Washington requires 180 quarter credits to graduate.
W&M CS requires 3 lower level CS courses and 9 upper level CS courses, most of which are 3 credits (the first one is 4 credits), so probably 37 semester credits. Note that 37 semester credits = 55.5 quarter credits.
Washington CS requires 87-90 quarter credits, of which 62 quarter credits are CS courses (the rest are math and non-CS science). Note that 62 quarter credits = 41+1/3 semester credits.
Essentially, it depends on what she prioritizes: her major (elite CS = UWash) or the rest of her college experience ( smaller, interactive classes, more personal attention, more flexibility in other academic endeavors).
As a young woman in CS, if she’s good, she’ll be hired, so the issue isn’t finding a job. It’s about what she finds most important.
An added layer is whether both are affordable - UW instate is probably half the cost of W&M. Can you afford W&M without parental loans, from income and savings?
Another layer is whether she got into the Honors College at UWashington, which would mitigate the 'small class size" issue in some gen ed classes.
I personally would not pay double to go to a less elite CS program (unless I don’t intend to be a CS major).