UW Madison: The most elite non-elite school?

Applying to College
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So I noticed a lot of people commented on my forums and said that I’m really insecure/ungrateful about going to UW Madison. There’s definitely truth to that, however I’d like to clarify my position so that people don’t think I’m as crazy as I come off.

Basically, I am convinced UW Madison is the most complicated public university in America in terms of reputation. On one hand, there’s the admission rate/yield rate and employment outcomes. In this metric, UW is above average, but not elite. It admits less than half of its applicants, but not by much. The vast majority of its students work at obscure companies. It has a good reputation in Wisconsin, but lacks any sort of national reputation, especially compared to Minnesota, Illinois, or Michigan.

But that’s not the end of the story. UW’s department are ranked very well, so much so that most public universities, in fact almost all of them except Umich/UCLA/Berkley, can’t compete with UW Madison. UW Madison was an AAU founding member, along with Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Berkeley, Columbia, JHU, and Michigan. Of the schools listed, UW is the only one not definitively considered elite. In terms of notable alumni, UW has 20 Nobels, 41 pulitzers, and 32 Rhodes scholars; this is the most Pulitzers of any public university (2nd most overall), the 3rd most Nobels of any public university, and the 4th most Rhodes scholars of any public university. UW also has the most Fortune 500 Ceos, and is among the Top 5 universities for producing tenured PHDs. It also led the nation for PHD production in 2018. UW also has the 6th highest median salary of any public (14th overall) of $70,000.

As you can see, UW Madison is the weirdest combination of elite academic quality, while having average outcomes among its students. Hopefully people can see why I am so anxious about the school’s reputation. It pretty definitively does not have a good national reputation. I mean, talk to any UNC or Umich alumni, they will trash on UW Madison. Furthermore, it’s clear employers would much rather choose a UNC/UVA/Umich grad over a UW Madison grad, all else considered equal. The employment reports and career fair attendance make that clear. HOWEVER, even though all this is true, I still think it’s worth it to attend UW Madison for the academic excellence. UW Madison has a rare combination of excellence in both humanities and stem, as well as a great reputation in academia which is important for grad school admissions. I have decided not to transfer and instead take up all the opportunities at UW. One final thing, can someone explain to me why UW’s employer reputation does not match its academic reputation?

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After you first job, no one will care where you went to school. They will care about what you did on the job.

Landing your first job is MUCH more about your GPA and resume than it is about the school reputation. Do well in Madison, and you’ll have better opportunities than a C student from Harvard.

Best of luck.

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Here we go again.

This reminds me of a thread from last year - Is UGA the Michigan of the South.

Funny - there’s another thread where there’s a student tripping over themselves to take Calc BC as a 10th grader or risk losing admission to - you guessed it - Wisconsin.

It’s time for you to transfer. Go to community college. You are wasting your money and your professor’s and the schools time.

UW is a great, solid flagship like so many others…nothing complicated about it.

And the vast majority of its students work the same places as other students - including one that works with me at a global automotive firm.

They work in schools, hospitals, Fortune 500s, start ups and everything else.

Finally i’ll tell you - in this, the day and age of the Internet, jobs are found mainly on linkedin and indeed. Check Cornell’s website for outcomes which is outstanding. Their engineers find jobs the same way that my Alabama engineer did - yes, through job fairs and profs…but mainly the Net (linkedin, indeed) and handshake…same way my son’s friends at UTK, UF found them and a ChemE we know at Michigan.

It’s foolish what you continue to do.

You will not succeed if you don’t hustle and have confidence - whether at Michigan, Wisconsin, Harvard, or Northern Illinois.

You should transfer - because you feel the school is beneath you or at least it’s rep is - and that’s ridiculous…but it’s how you feel and I can accept that.

You are staying but if it’s going to bother you, it’s not worth it.

Wisconsin will have job fairs and contacts…like Michigan, Minnesota, Kansas, and any other state flagship. You’ll have access to handshake, other online tools, alumni and more.

And don’t forget, like you could only select one school, you’re only going to accept one job.

Good luck.

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I took a lot of chemistry in college, where I attended a flagship in the western US. Guess which school was spoken about with the most reverence amongst the chemists there? UW Madison. I knew that as an undergrad living nowhere near there.

When I was doing my PhD, guess where the absolute powerhouse group of researchers in my biomedical field worked? UW Madison.

I have since switched fields. In my new field there are several schools that are revered. You guessed it: one of them is UW Madison.

But my anecdotes, as well as the advice and reassurance from tons of people on this website, will not convince you.

I agree that a transfer may be the best path for you. Even if you say you’ve decided against it, you’re clearly not at peace.

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First of all, the point of this post was to clarify that I have respect for Wisconsin and that I’m staying there. I was simply claiming that its lack of employer reputation is pretty undeniable, especially compared to how great a school it is. That was the point of this post. To say that yes, I was being ungrateful, yes Wisconsin is a good school, but also it is strangely underrated.

Also, I think it’s a pretty bad faith argument to claim that it’s all about hustling when it comes to job applications. Clearly this is true, but the reality is a lot of employers (especially the desirable ones like Google or Goldman Sachs) do account for school prestige in reputation when trying to hire employees. I mean, Goldman routinely hires Cornell graduates, while they do not show up at Alabama recruiting fairs. Hell, they kids they recruit from at ivy leagues do not even have the most stacked resumes. A recent NYT report noted how almost 50% of those recruited for IB were Ivy League student athletes. Are the kids at Alabama dumber? No. Do the kids at Cornell work harder? No. But many competitive jobs are all about exclusivity and school like UW and Alabama often don’t make the cut, no matter how smart or talented their graduates are.

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Also, I get the sense that most people on this thread are parents, who are often unaware of how much the college environment is changed. I can tell you from my Wisconsin high school experience that almost everyone wanted to get out of the state and avoid attending UW Madison because of the reputation. We even had one kid in my class who chose UNC OOS and took on debt because it was to him “a dramatically better school”. I feel like UW had a much better reputation 20 years ago, but now times have changed. Ask your teenager or nephew/niece about what they think of UW Madison. The most common response will be “it’s a massive party school” or that it’s alright but no where near UNC/Illnois/Michgian/Virginia.

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Most people on this site are parents. Yes, I’m a parent, but I’m also a professor at an R1 so I do think my sense of Madison’s academic reputation is decent. I’m just offering it up, fully realizing that you have been having trouble accepting the nice things people say about your school.

Teenagers don’t make hiring decisions. Some of the parents on this website do. You only need to spend some time on Reddit to see that the typical teenager’s sense of the college environment isn’t necessarily well-informed.

If you ask the opinion of folks on this website, yes, you’ll mostly get the opinion of parents. So it’s probably not the best place to get the opinions of your peers from Wisconsin – you’ll have to seek those out elsewhere.

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You’re entitled to your opinion but I think it’s ridiculously wrong. It’s a great flagship, like so many others. And it has its strong majors, as do others.

How you define desirable employers may not be how someone else does.

You know who works at google or Amazon ? Kids from more colleges than you can name.

Know who works at Goldman as an equity analyst and likely not the only. A Bama grad and I’m sure grads from many other schools, including Wisconsin which is easily found on LinkedIn. I found many. Again you label Goldman desirable. Someone else may not.

Schools may recruit on campus at some schools (fewer today than b4), but most is on line - even companies that recruit certain schools. My sons company recruited Purdue, Michigan, Case Western. So what - they have auburn, nc state, Akron, w Michigan, Utah, Washington.

The kids hustled.

It’s a new world.

You can adapt. Or you’ll struggle.

I mean, what will you do when you work for a Stevens Point or Northern Iowa grad ?

Best of luck.

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According to LinkedIn, 9 of the to 15 schools where Goldman employees did their undergrads are out of the United States.

Better at what cost? Do the math on that leverage and the opportunity cost. I think you might be surprised.

It must be really bad. They account for more Fortune 500 CEOs than any other undergrad in the nation, currently 14.

Also according to LinkedIn, Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Meta, Salesforce and Tesla are all in their top 10 employers of alumni.

Only 44% of the 2022 freshman class hailed from in state. If it’s so bad, why did 56% of the class pay out of state tuition.

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I find this ridiculous but I will tell you in every state there is a faction of people who rue the in state public. That’s not owned by Wisconsin.

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Well UW’s yield according to wikipedia was 28.1% last year. Umich was 47.5%. UNC was 45%. As a comparison Cornell’s yield is 60%. However, as recently as 2014 UW’s yield was 41%. Clearly something is happening amongst teenagers which is making them not yield to UW Madison and instead yield to its public peers. I think this speaks to the effect of Wisconsin teenagers wanting to get out of the state more than most.

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I say this with parent-like concern: you are obsessed. Your various threads and comments about this topic are clear. You are not at peace.

Please find a way to contentment, or at least acceptance. If that means therapy, great. If that means transferring, great.

But I think spending time trying to get reassurance on this site is not helping you very much.

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Why are you asking teenagers what they think of different colleges? Are they going to hire you when you graduate? It matters not one whit whether someone in your high school took on debt to go to UNC. Seriously. You’re spending way too much energy on this.

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Hmmm - I didn’t realize. I should have applied to Georgia Southern. It’s a better school than U Mich. why else would 52% of admitted go. Hmmm. Free tuition for in state…perhaps as Ga supports its performers.

Oooh. Another better than UM (and your sad school) is U of Texas. No not the Austin campus. That’s for losers. I’m talking the Rio Grand Valley campus. Those 5338 attending are the smartest of the smart first year enrollees with a higher yield than UM.

At least UW is better than WUSTL and its 22% yield. And CWRU whose yield is less than 15%,
Only the truly stupid attend them. And William & Mary - 28.2% - another school with a horrid rep - at least based on yield - I swear they should close UW down and those three too. All horrible institutions.

Ps - I use Wisconsin data, not Wikipedia which I could change to 80% to make you happy. The last report is 29.2.

Yield comes due to many reasons. I’d stop obsessing. Many students are leaving cold or expensive climates. Look one state south. That’s not owned by Wisconsin.

Guess what - if you want to go by US News or other metrics you create, Michigan is better.

Ok so it is. But it doesn’t mean they will be any more successful than you’ll be.

And guess what - you don’t go to Michigan and it’s not better because of yield. Well maybe it is. You are buying US News rank. Make up your own.

Again, good luck.

I’m not sure why you’d stay ? You’re clearly destined to living in Wisconsin, at a place no one has ever heard of, at a pay do paltry you’ll just get by. Maybe you can wait on tables at restaurants where UM grads go.

Listen, by all metrics UM may be better but there’s gonna be a ton of Michigan grads working for Central Michigan, Wisconsin, or even Grand Valley state grads.

Michigan will have its successes and failures just like any other school.

My god - it’s time to move on.

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On these forums, Google has a much more college-elitist reputation than it seemingly actually does based on its actual statements (about the large number of colleges it recruits at) and actions. For example, Google’s choice to expand an office in Madison, Wisconsin and a cited reason: Google opens new Madison office – Innovate – UW–Madison and Google expands Madison presence with new office, partners with Boys and Girls Club .

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Yes, we are parents. But we are also hiring managers who hire new grads, so many of us (including myself) are very aware of which colleges excel in which areas.

Truth: for banking jobs (IB, trading, quant, etc), you are correct. Goldman and other Wall Street banks are indeed prestige obsessed and hire from a small set of schools (Ivys and top LACs). It’s just how it is and maybe they’ll broaden their perspective some day but nothing you can do about it right now. But you can always get hired into Goldman later from another firm.

As for Google and the tech companies: no they don’t care about prestige. You can apply from any school and you can get hired regardless of your school’s name. They do target certain schools known to produce strong candidates. UW Madison is one of them. Ditto for pretty much any other industry. The ones that care about school prestige are very, very few.

In short: you’re at a well reputed school and can have great career outcomes.

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My son’s fiancée is going very well at Google. She attended the American University of Beirut. :slightly_smiling_face:

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To quite Dr. Leonard McCoy in Star Trek: The Original Series, “He’s dead, Jim.”

Repetitive threads are not allowed; this is the OP’s 4th:

There’s nothing new to add, and apparently nothing that will change the OP’s mind. Closing. No new threads by the OP on the topic are allowed

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