My son has been accepted to a bunch of schools but these are his final favorites.
With merit, they cost approximately the same amount each year, and we are not cost-sensitive. (I’ve included the costs FYI)
UW Seattle: admitted for first-year engineering (he’d need to apply to his major through a selective process at the end of the first year.) Projected COA (including $3K merit): $62,937
Case Western Reserve: single-door entry; he’d need to declare a major by spring of his first year. Projected COA (including $31,500 merit): $60,500
WPI: admitted for mechanical engineering (I believe). Has to finalize major by end of the B-term (second half of fall semester). Projected COA (including $28K merit): $57,000
Factors that have mattered to my son up until this point:
Location: he early on expressed a not overwhelming preference for being in California and I think West Coast feels like a comfortable extension. He tends to like cities and vibrant college towns.
Reputation/ranking/selectivity index: he’s come through a wealthy public high school in Silicon Valley and a lot of his classmates (although not all his friends) were aiming high. At the moment, going to a school that kids have heard of, a school that is going to register with people on the class Instagram page as not-a-safety, matters to him (more than I wish it would. Let’s just collectively roll our eyes and get that out of the way.)
Proximity to good middle-eastern food: I’m sort of kidding but this was a quest on our college visits. I think it’s a proxy for other things – let’s call it local vibrancy. He likes going to hear live music, browsing thrift shops and used bookstores and game shops, biking places. He still doesn’t drive and we’re not sending him to school with a car (at least not anytime soon.)
Opportunity to study languages and study abroad: he’s somewhat agnostic about where he goes at the moment but it seems important to him.
All of these would point to UW, right? (well, maybe not the studying abroad) But wait – I have some concerns:
Social climate: my boy is shy. Still hasn’t been on a date. Tends not to go to big high school functions. Isn’t doing senior assassin. Left the one h/s formal that he attended early. He has close friends but tends to wait for them to initiate things and my sense is that he’s no one’s bestie – people like him; they enjoy him; they respect him well enough – but they don’t always remember to include him. That said - he bonded with his housemates on his summer exchange in France (they’ve stayed in touch) and bonded with his dorm-mates last summer at WPI. He’s a little hard to pin down but tends not to hang w/ jocks and popular kids. Otherwise flexible and kind and loyal to his people. He doesn’t really do friend group drama.
Executive function requirements: He’s got ADHD and tends to be a sloppy manager of time who resists support and structure with all his might. Of course he’s brilliant at finishing things in the nick of time and a whiz at test-taking but it seems obvious to me that he’s going to need to level up his academic AND life administration skills in order to thrive at any school he attends.
Competitive vs cooperative environment: he’s a smart cookie but it may take a while for him to level up his game and he’s never been one to put himself forward. He’s most likely to seek help from peers or his father, not from formal tutors or teachers. In fact, most of his teachers last year (when queried) barely knew he existed (see: shy!) Obviously he’s going to need to figure this stuff out or he’ll never get a job. I’m just wondering whether he’d figure it out fast enough to get the major he wants at UW (which I’ve heard can depend on things like getting into potentially competitive clubs, writing essays, etc.)
Other interests: badminton (although he’s probably not going to be super competitive, he’d love to play on a club team), potentially some sort of outdoor activity (he started a cycling club and generally is strong and has great stamina), gaming of all kinds (D&D, Magic, video games, etc.), playing piano (but not seriously), going out to hear live music, exploring more generally.
What I like about each school/my best-case Pollyannaish dream for how it might work out for him (knowing full well that all of this is massively out of my control):
UW: Seattle! such a gorgeous place with interesting culture, access to outdoor activities, a thriving tech sector, friends and family nearby, and oh – we can easily get there by plane, train, or automobile. Dream scenario: he gets his desired major, finds a new sport that he can do outdoors, joins a club or two, makes some good friends, survives the bureaucratic/competitive crucible and emerges with better life skills (laundry/rent/cooking/planning with friends/applying for things), ready to adult. And gets a job somewhere between here and there. (and gets married, has babies, lands somewhere near us! etc.)
Case: Great location within an under-rated city. Strong STEM/engineering education but lots of arts/humanities options too, and just generally culturally alive. Access to clubs/opportunities is less competitive. Big enough to feel like an adventure but not so big that you’ll get swallowed whole. Seems like if there were a place where he’d get involved in research, it would be here (feels like a bigger part of the student culture.) My dream: he’d become more intellectually engaged in his coursework than he has been up until now, figure out if he wants to pursue graduate-level research, make smart nerdy friends, up his badminton game and/or find some other sort of physical activity, build up his intellectual confidence, meet people from all over the world, (also love/marriage/grandkids/etc.)
WPI: Hands-on, project-based, experiential curriculum. Shorter quarters with fewer things to juggle at any one time and less time to get bored. Great overseas experiences. Frats that seem to trend more quirky/friendly/geeky. Smaller class sizes/better opportunities to be mentored by faculty. A small, manageable city (Worcester) that isn’t too expensive, still close to a major job market (Boston). Has cycling team/badminton club/etc. My dream is that the hands-on nature of the curriculum would help re-activate his maker/doer side, that he’d make amazing close friendships, figure out some adulting on the side but perhaps on a less accelerated/urgent timeline, develop relationships with faculty that translate into research opportunities, become more confident. (enough so that eventually there will be grandkids.)
Would love to hear from folks what you think the risks and opportunities would be for each of these options – any red flags that come to mind – and areas for him (and us) to dig deeper before he makes up his mind. I should stress that the decision is up to him, but that he still listens to us, sometimes. And yet I don’t want to put my thumb too heavily on the scales, in case it all goes sideways. I do want him to own this choice and feel good about it.
Well all three show a badminton club. You might contact each club though to make sure they are active. But all have websites.
I think rep and rank - isn’t relevant. If it was you’d have picked UW. Or Maybe Case but not WPI. The fact it’s in your final and you want to feel more says - this metric shouldn’t matter.
Which language ? WPI has Spanish, Chinese, Arabic and German and do a minor. What does Case or UW have and how accessible are they ? Does he have a specific language ? They have but engineering is rigid - would there be space for them. At WPI sounds like yes.
You say all these point to UW…maybe but I thought Case and hoped WPI.
Who is the best working with ADHD? Can they connect you with parents to ask ? That would seem to be most important I’d think over anything else. .
The med food - we know CWRU has nearby Italian. Do they med food ? Easy to look up on google / yelp / trip advisor.
Does the CWRU Maker space matter to him ?
Will the shorter classes be better with ADHD.
Have you been to all ? If so what did he think ?
On paper, i think Washington will be toughest based on size. One will need to advocate there. Plus it gets really really crowded on the immediate roads. Could that make someone a bit more stressed - constant logjam around ? It does me
I think WPI made the list b/c my son spent a couple of weeks there over the summer and enjoyed it/felt comfortable there. But I can tell that he’s uneasy about the comparative lack of prestige.
We went to Case last month (well, February) and he and my husband ate at Sittoo’s not once but twice in the <24 hours we were there. I think both this and badminton are going to be accessible at all three schools (although I worry that his badminton skills might not be up to par for any of the schools).
He was impressed by it.
Heading to UW next week. He’s been to WPI but not for an official tour/admitted students event (it was a two-week summer program). We spent a day and night at Case recently. I sort of wish he’d been at WPI when classes were in session but I think we’ve run out of runway to make this happen. Maybe I’ll nudge him in this direction once more.
He was there two weeks. He lived and ate there. That’s enough to know.
Rank/rep is overrated. No doubt you’ve read my son’s story a million times. Turned down Purdue with merit for Bama so he could have his own dorm room - and they had Palm trees. Told me rank was for magazines. Companies don’t care.
I think he’s right.
He interned and outperformed kids from a top school - getting invited back when they weren’t. He works with Michigan, Purdue, CWRU and more but W Michigan, Akron, Buffalo - they all make the same.
I get it - his friends are going to UCs and other high fallutin. But in 6 months will he even know most ?
WPI has impressive MechE hiring stats - seems heavy on defense which I know is big up there. My son had an offer from a defense firm on that list. Does defense interest your son ?
UW doesn’t list salaries but has a job board.
CWRU gives income bands - over half $75k plus.
I put all three below.
The peer pressure is tough. I get it. But he has to be happy four years, day after day. If rank wasn’t involved, would he choose WPI or rather did he come back from his two weeks with. - I had THE BEST time.
I don’t have an ADHD kid - have you checked into support ?? I assume it matters.
If WPI is right - short classes, hands on, study abroad integrated (it’s not everywhere for engineering), I’d hate for that to be a no.
Yrs WPI isn’t as well known but outcome wise they seem to be delivering. You might check the report and see if any get back out to CA if that’s the goal.
WPI’s rank is lower because up until recently it was classified as a regional university. Who knows why as they’ve offered doctoral degrees for a long time. The rankings, especially for engineering, tend to be self perpetuating. I’d put very little stock into that.
I’d avoid UW. First, it’s a secondary admit. More importantly, a kid who isn’t focussed and driven will get spit out.
That brings me back to WPI. He will have much more support there. Plus, they don’t allow failing grades.
My son is a Cal Poly alum (BS/MS ‘19) from out of state, but he was a whisper away from choosing WPI. There’s a lot to like there.
I’m not sure if @HPuck35 is still lurking around, but he’d have good insight into WPI.
Slymans deli is all you need to know if he likes corn beef. Your welcome .
Seriously, has everything you mentioned. Doesn’t need a car.
Get him this book. It mirrors strategies used for ADHD. A bit out dated but can use his phone apps for substitutes. It’s a quick fun read. Great read on procrastination!!! How to Become a Straight-A Student: The Unconventional Strategies Real College Students Use to Score High While Studying Less https://a.co/d/2TnlI69
Not medical advice but biofeedback now works wonders with ADHD.
WPI is certainly well-regarded here in the Boston area for hiring and grad school. I wouldn’t have said it ranked below CSRU or UW for engineering outcomes.
My child married someone who went to CSRU and they did produce a baby, so that item could be checked off for you with a data point of one
If you figure out the perfect way to make a decision when your kid’s heart leans different ways on different days for different reasons, please let us know, because I don’t think you’re alone in that!
I can’t believe your son and S24 have so much in common. They have similar personality and insterest (Cycling club). Both of them got accepted to uDub school of Engineering with merit OOS.
Last year, S24 had to choose between uDub and tOSH. He picked uDub over tOSH due to similar concern about ranking and location (not sure why his HS kids don’t like schools in Ohio). And the beautiful Cherry blossom, Harry Potter style library …
Later on, he picked UCD over uDub after coming off waitlist there. Major reason was secondary admit in uDub. He worried about not getting into Aerospace Eng (since it is a very popular major there) and the competition among freshmen year. Hopefully this help. Good Luck
And Davis has a consistently awesome cycling team, with much better weather for riding.
My son told me last night that WPI wasn’t happening. I asked if this was about local reputation/perceived prestige and he said “only a little.” sigh Californians can be so provincial! He also mentioned that at the moment he’s leaning pretty heavily in the direction of UW.
I’m slowly becoming reconciled to the idea that my smaller-class-size dreams for him are going away. Some people don’t necessarily want to be known (she said, bitterly). Hmph.
This is my life’s work. It’s funny – we have been down this road before. We tried to send S to a smaller private middle school for gifted kids (because he was getting in trouble and not getting work done and definitely not intellectually engaged in his middle school). He got as far as the essay where he had to write about why he wanted to attend (insert name). His essay was short and to-the-point: “Heck no.”
For high school we toured a local STEM magnet that was much smaller than his large traditional high school. Several of his friends were planning to attend. But he told me he wanted the big school with the football games and activities. He hasn’t actually BEEN to a football game (and we have a good team!) but maybe the idea is floating along anonymously in a sea of interesting things happening? Sort of the way I feel when I wander around Manhattan for a day?
I bet he’s going to love UW. Whether it loves him back seems immaterial. sigh
I think you and I (and our S25s) are in the same place… the school that we parents think is the best fit, is not the school that the students are in love with. I think Case could be a better fit for your guy, but I think he’s going to end up at UW and love his choice. But, like with my guy, really he’s deciding between multiple great choices, all of which have high likelihood for great outcomes.
You know I love WPI, and I would love to encourage more students to go there, but if he’s not feeling it then it’s not right. (This is the pep talk I’m currently giving myself.) I wish that the prestige factor or recognition amongst friends weren’t a thing, but it is. And while, yes, that will eventually wear off, I want my kid to START college excited about being there. It feels like UW is that place for your boy.
I really can’t do a good comparison of the three colleges as I only know one, WPI.
My daughter went to WPI. We were living in southern California at the time and she was primarily looking at west coast colleges. We visited WPI while on vacation and she fell in love with WPI. She graduated in 2014 with BS in mechanical engineering.
My thoughts on WPI.
Definitely a small school feel. Worcester has quite a bit going for it and Boston isn’t that far away. Worcester has minor league sports teams and a few museums that are interesting. Housing wasn’t too expensive. She lived in the dorms for freshman year and off campus after that.
The quarter system that WPI uses gives the students breaks between quarters where they have absolutely no coursework, so the student can really decompress. My daughter would come back to CA and really enjoyed the break. You take fewer classes per quarter, but the pace is fast. You might contact WPI to see if they can give you any general guidance on how ADHD students deal with the pace. (Engineering schools in general will push a student’s envelope on organization and study skills. My daughter had professors that stressed (required?) being part of a study group for all students.)
My daughter actually had professors coming to her to ask her to be part of their research group. That is something that I don’t normally hear that professors do. You typically have to go to them.
I grew up in New England and knew about WPI. It is quite well known and respected in the New England and Northeast in general. Not so well known outside those areas for the general population but it is fairly well known in the engineering circles outside the NE / NY areas. I worked with several WPI engineers at the company I worked at in SoCal. I would almost consider WPI more of a regional school than a national school. Of course, you can say that about a lot of schools (including CalPolySLO, which BTW my son graduated from)
WPI hosted several job fairs with a large number of companies attending. It was thru one of those that my daughter got her job offer. Most of her classmates were equally fortunate to gain good jobs right out of college.
My daughter spent a quarter in London, England working on her major project. It was with a group of WPI students and WPI had a housing section for their students. There was a couple from WPI that watched over the students (somewhat) and arranged various trips on the weekends. She learned a lot and had a wonderful experience. It wasn’t cheap, however, as she still had to keep her rent up for her off campus apartment (which she shared with two other women)
For her other project (which was part time and on campus) the group did research on airport runway materials. They ended presenting their findings at the FAA office in Washington. She was pretty jazzed about that.
My wife and I were very pleased with WPI and thought it was the best school for our daughter. In some respects, we wish our son had attended WPI (he the older of the two) but he will always say CalPoly was the place for him. It really does come down to “love the one that loves you”.
If you have any questions, you can always message me.
Based on what you’ve posted, I think I’d choose Case for him. I don’t know any of the schools super well (we are going to visit UW next week over S26’s spring break). For me, the reasons come down to your stated case for Case :-). That blend of location, access to engineering without a big struggle, the opportunity to explore other subjects more readily, and size/location, with the potential for better ADHD support. And I remember reading about your journey while you were on it, and Case seemed to really stand out to him.
That all said, we are also from the Bay Area, in a wealthy and competitive school district, and UW is such a popular school here. No one will ask why he picked it or raise their eyebrows and say … where’s that? Plus, it’s gorgeous, fun, vibrant… all the things. Would your son be devastated if he didn’t get engineering at UW when it’s time to apply? Does he have a back up major or would he want to transfer?
As for whether he’d thrive … I think our ADHD kids have the amazing ability to rise to the occasion when their asses are on the line. Maybe UW will help him continue to mature, and even fast-track that a bit since he would learn fast that he’s really on his own. My son has ADHD, and so do I. I went to a huge state school and floundered a bit at first (even landing on academic probation one semester). But I eventually got myself together and I’m better for the struggle.
Anyway, long-winded way of saying… I’d pick Case for him but join him for the leap of faith that is UW. Good luck!
Following this thread with interest – so much of how you describe S25 could be said about my D26 (ADHD and all). We are also considering WPI – and I really think she’d love CWRU, but they don’t really have the program she’s looking for (UX/UI or experiential design and game design – Case has a gaming minor but nothing else of interest. Still, we’ll look again, because I think she might really like the setting. So far, RIT, Miami Ohio and Georgia Tech are her front runners).
UW is not on our radar – it’s too far for her, but more importantly, she wants a “small, chill” marching band or pep band, and the bands at big state schools are just too big, competitive and demanding.
Our equivalent would be U Florida – I’m an alum, and in hindsight, I could have made a much better choice. I do think my kiddo would get swallowed up at a huge state school, as I did. (She’s at a small private school now and wants something completely different – but within reason.)
But I think for some kids, once they decide what they love, then they truly love it. Hoping this holds true for your S25 as he makes his decision!
(It was true for my D22 – she picked a school that was a two hour flight away, and she HATES to fly. Still worth it – she couldn’t be happier.)
Does anyone know which airport is easiest to fly into to rent a car and drive to WPI – Hartford, Providence or Boston? I imagine driving through Boston is challenging?
Driving time from Providence to WPI and Boston to WPI is basically equal. So if you find flights to Providence that’s a good middle ground - not quite as many flight choices as Boston, but more than the other options and less expensive than the other non-BOS options too usually.
“Probably Mech E”-- does that mean there are other, non-engineering disciplines still on the table?
I know a lot of “probably Mech E” kids who switch after they either fall in love with something else (the advantage of a core curriculum!) or decide they love some but not all of Mech E and find a different discipline more exciting. I know Mech E to architecture, to civil engineering, to environmental engineering with a lot of urban planning thrown in there (long term interests in sustainable design and some policy). So if the Mech E isn’t nailed down, check out how easy it is to move around to adjacent disciplines. For many HS kids, this is the only discipline they have been exposed to which has theory, math and tinkering… but once they get to college, there are lots of other things with those elements.
I think both this and badminton are going to be accessible at all three schools (although I worry that his badminton skills might not be up to par for any of the schools).
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