UWGPA 3.8 including BBCCCDD - what options are eliminated by these 3 C's and 2 D's?

Applying to College
21

I agree that more detail on the transcript would be helpful - also the breakdown between first and second semester will help give some clarity on how she handled the transition. I do think that her leaving the rigorous public school and returning to taking dual enrollment classes at her previous school is going to be a red flag. The rigor of the school is going to be questioned - particularly as it sounds like she’s run out of STEM classes - not something that would be true at an even semi-rigorous university.

I do think a real assessment of their skills and truly understanding the right environment to thrive for college is going to be important. I had a very advanced STEM kid so understand the struggle at times with the “easy stuff” - but those struggles did not disappear in college either. Something to keep in mind.

1 Like
22

Maybe. I would cast a broader net. Look at affordable options in your state (as you mentioned). What courses were these D grades in?

23

The good news is that your daughter made a decision to seek a challenge when she was in 10th grade. It was her decision (and yours?) to make the change of schools. It was at her initiative. That is to her credit.

And she struggled with some courses. And was highly successful with others. The C’s and D’s don’t define who she is. She was fifteen years old when this happened. 15! Who she is is what college admissions will want to know. She needs to tell them her story, not the story of the C’s and D’s. What her aspiration are. What her hopes and dreams are. How she’s going to pursue and achieve them.

The C’s and D’s will probably rule out the most competitive schools. So, I wouldn’t focus on schools which accept only 5% of their applicants. I’d focus on the ones which accept 25%. Here are some ideas on MFN schools.

I’d start with Smith College (22% acceptance rate). A terrific school which meets full need. In fact, I’d look at women’s colleges in general. I think they may be sympathetic to her story. And they are generally stronger academically than their acceptance rate because they have eliminated 40+% of the college applicants (males) before they’ve begun. Generally the best ones are well resourced with excellent faculty. So, Bryn Mawr (29%) and Scripps (38%) would be 2 others on my list. Both also meet full need but with loans included. (Smith has a no loans policy).

Lafayette (29%) is a school which meets full need without loans but only for families with assets below $150,00. If you meet this criterion, they would be worth investigating.

There is a fairly long list of schools which meet full need with loans included. I think that it could be productive to investigate schools with acceptance rates in the 20-45% range. Here’s a list:

Carleton (20%)
Denison (20%)
Richmond (22%)
Wake Forest (22%)
Skidmore (24%)
Reed (25%)
Macalester (27%)
Pitzer (27%)
Franklin & Marshall (28%)
Trinity (29%)
Kenyon(31%)
Oberlin (34%)
Connecticut College (37%)
Rochester (41%)
Union College (44%
Occidental (45%)

Best of luck.

6 Likes
24

OP here. Thanks everyone. I limit details for privacy. I’ll try to address everything in one post.

Budget=$20k and the abovementioned types of colleges, Meets Full Needs (MFN) and National Merit Finalist (NMF) colleges are the only ones that are both affordable, and would possibly be chosen in preference to NearbyStateU. I am convinced that there are no other colleges where ALL three things are true (1) D27 could get in, (2) we could afford it, and (3) we would possibly choose that college in preference to NearbyStateU. There may be hundreds of other colleges satisfying one or two of these but it takes all three to be true. There are no other colleges to consider. Also NearbyStateU is the unique safety, and unique in-state public under consideration.

So the question as intended to be taken in the OP is, is the presence of these 3 C’s and 2 D’s, in and of themselves, regardless of any other information or circumstances or later events, going to be automatically disqualifying for admission to MFN colleges, or reaching NMF status, or success in QB process?

I think a couple of posters have said that yes, D27 is eliminated from contention for all these, and I’m wondering if others agree.

I can say the grade 10 grades included: Core STEM AAAC, and Core Humanities DDCC.
And all the sub-A grades were a consequence of not submitting several major items such as reports, projects, major essays, and scoring zero for those items, so that the simple arithmetic of the missed points yielded the grades she got (and also due to this, she was not invited to return).

Obviously the circumstances, and whatever underlying causes, and any implications for the future, are things for our family to look into. But I ask the forum to just treat this thread as a kind of “chance me” based just on the given information, for the given colleges/scholarships.

One poster essentially said it looks like D27 got straights A’s at NonselectiveEasySchool, then switched to SelectiveHardSchool for grade 10 and bombed out, and then went back to NonselectiveEasySchool, and that’s totally fair, that’s basically what really happened, and we should expect colleges to see it that way too. On the other hand, the DE and regular coursework D27 did in grade 9 at NonselectiveEasySchool taught her the material to get AP exam scores Bio(5) Chem(4) and two other 5’s, so that’s evidence of rigor at the easier school, and even many selective schools will give college credit for these grade 9 results.

S24, who got almost straight A’s at SelectiveHardSchool (just 2 B’s in grade 12 and UWGPA 3.97) reports that his (selective, MFN) college is even much harder than SelectiveHardSchool (whereas many SelectiveHardSchool students have found regular colleges like NearbyStateU easier than that high school). Obviously we’d have to worry that if D27 were to actually get into one of these selective/MFN colleges, then she could have a repeat of her grade 10 disaster, and surely such colleges would also wonder the same things, which is why I find it hard to believe they would overlook such an obvious red flag.

If D27 were staying at SelectiveHardSchool until grade 12, she would have had many courses up to 2nd year college level to choose from. But back at NonselectiveEasySchool, the courses run out earlier which is why she has 100% Humanities in grade 11, and nothing left there in grade 12, so she might as well go on campus at NearbyStateU and start taking actual college courses.

I agree Associates is no big deal, but it’s just a by-product of what she’s doing anyway, so she might as well get it. All the DE courses give a bunch of in-state college credit, so that’s worthwhile, though that credit probably doesn’t travel OOS, hence the need to do some AP exams.

Her most likely path now is to try to do really well at NearbyStateU to set up for grad school. Transferring half way through undergrad (when high school grades can disappear) might work, but the problem is a bunch of DE credit that is only good in-state could be lost, so it’s better to finish undergrad at NearbyStateU.

It may be that D27 can end up with 8 semesters worth of A’s in each core subject, but nothing is “replaced” and all high school course grades (even if taken in middle school) stay on the transcript, so the bad grades cannot be overwritten and will be seen.

In 2026-7, D27 will take actual college courses on campus at NearbyStateU, but there is the question she should officially be a 12th grader, or 1st year college. There are many factors in considering these options, but one is that as a college student she’d get FinAid (making it essentially free), whereas as a high schooler we’d have to pay $1k+ per course.

These are a bunch of replies to many people’s comments.

But, again, what I really want to know is her prospects for admission to MFN colleges, or reaching NMF status, or success in QB process, given her bad grades.

25

Basically, the choice here is:

  • Graduate early, commit to NearbyStateU, receive financial aid.
  • Stay a HS student while taking college courses at NearbyStateU, paying some tuition, but retaining the possibility of applying as frosh to other colleges.
26

Also note that if the prior DE courses were “college in the high school” type courses, college courses taken at any college like NearbyStateU may be different in terms of the level of self-motivation and time management required of the student.

1 Like
27

Was there a difference between being online and in-person that would also differentiate her successful vs less successful academic years? If so, then I would be concerned that even if she were to get into MFN schools that she might struggle there.

1 Like
28

I think you’ve received some opinions on this. While no one can give a definitive answer, it looks like NMF and QB are both going to be out for your daughter. And the admission to meets needs schools question would be easier to answer if you would provide more information. Several specific questions were asked but not answered.

4 Likes
29

Note also that “meet full need” schools may give very different financial aid packages (and estimates in their net price calculators), because they each have their own definition of “need”. The same goes for schools that do not claim to “meet full need”, so it is possible that some of these may give better financial aid packages than some “meet full need” schools.

Try each school’s net price calculator rather than relying on “meet full need” claims.

30

Having 3 kids and some experience from top colleges, LACS and even local/remote, I would go the simplest route for your D and your pocket. That is against this forum values, but the best for your D and her mental health. I suspect she may have undiagnosed ADHD, anxiety or some other hidden issues, but she is very smart and capable . Top schools even with better grades probably would not be best fit. Just let her study with least amount of pressure and grow her confidence. Local college with DE credits is a way to go. Life is long. College prestige is overrated.

15 Likes
31

A “chance me” requires more than the given information. For example, what were the humanities courses she got Ds for? Can these be remediated?

They can both be “seen” and remediated. Grade entry such as on the common app and STARS asks if any courses were repeated. Some (maybe most? Not sure) colleges will only use the higher grade for GPA calculation if so. They probably won’t completely ignore the fact that there are Ds, but they will see the efforts made to overcome that performance.

3 Likes
32

Does AAAC mean two courses and the first one has A’s first and second semester and the second one has A first semester and C second semester? Or something else?

2 Likes
33

Yes, IMO. (Based on the info we have so far) I would not spend the time on the QB app, which is relatively difficult.

U Tulsa includes NMSF for their scholarship, so she doesn’t have to progress to NMF for that. I’m not sure I saw, but do the meet full need schools even show they will meet the $20K budget, per the NPCs?

5 Likes
34

If she graduates HS and takes these classes, she will be a transfer student at many/most colleges for Fall 2027. If she doesn’t graduate HS, she will preserve her freshman status for college. Generally, institutional financial aid is better for freshman than transfers.

10 Likes
35

There is also another possibility, which is that she never learned good study habits because she was able to get by on brilliance for so long. This is very common among profoundly gifted children, but it leads to a painful adjustment at some point. Even the legendary mathematician Terence Tao experienced struggle when it was time for his PhD work because he had never needed to study before.

I say this because, if this was the reason for her poor grades, there’s no guarantee she will thrive at college. Check if this is the case, and if so, work on it during the summer before college.

16 Likes
36

Agree this sounds like it could be either adhd or “just” bad study habits, but whichever it is it needs to be addressed ASAP and definitely before college.

5 Likes
37

I will quit and leave it to others if you do not want to go there, but I find it hard to visualize what her OFFICIAL transcript will look like. Have you ever asked to see for yourself? Often times, it looks a bit better than you think, and can be better explained when you see things the way a college will.

3 Likes
38

Seconding women’s colleges in particular Scripps and Bryn Mawr, plus Smith.

It’s impossible to chance her without all the information. Cs and Ds are problematic but to decide whether they will truly impact her trajectory we’d need to know more.
Obviously it’ll have an impact but the more grades she has that distance herself from these grades, the better.
Can you do the subject by subject transcript list?

What classes is she taking right now? All 4 or 5. Not the precise titles but the subjects and the level (100 if college freshman, 200 if college sophomore, 300 if college junior).

What classes does she have planned for next semester?
Can she switch to dual enrollment then if she isn’t in DE with either nearbynotgoodU or NearbyStateU?
I understand the HS only has “humanities” left but you’d need to invest in 2 online or University courses, even if he needs a balance of advanced courses (don’t follow the AA requirements.) She needs to continue whatever advanced STEM she was doing as well as building a solid record. She can take 4 college courses not 5 this Spring and you can see how she handles them.
I realize it’s probably a big deal for you financially but since it’s due to flaming out last year you could ask her to contribute by taking a part time job and giving you half her salary each month. Christmas sales are upcoming, stores will need people. Hopefully you’ll have a store that pays $11-12/hr nearby.

Can you check with her current GC whether they’ll use the passage in italics in my post upthread. It would matter at all the MFN colleges. This kind of paragraph would not surprise their adcoms but it is better coming from a guidance counselor.

(It’s reassuring it wasn’t a matter of cheating or failing tests but failing to turn work in. It may be the case of a 2E kid, twice exceptional, ADD/highly gifted. Has she been tested? It’d be important to know so she can have the appropriate help before college if necessary. It can come on top or instead of having good/bad study habits, something you can monitor next semester and Fall 2026 if she takes appropriately challenging college classes.)

5 Likes
39

Sorry, this posted to the wrong person. Deleted and reposted.

She does have a chance, if not at HYPSM. But it’s going to take some recalibrating.

Imho, she probably can’t apply ED anywhere because she’ll need three semesters of grades to distance herself from the Cs and Ds. That also precludes QB - perhaps not 100% but I wouldn’t focus on it at this point.

Run the NPC on Smith, Scripps, Bryn Mawr, Carleton, Hamilton.

Adcom will see that the “not so rigorous” HS allowed her to get 5s on AP tests in 9th grade so the class can’t have been that lightweight.

I’m more concerned about her schedule.

It’d be very useful if we had each class per core subject as well as the grades next to the 10th grade, where “English 9H, English 10H DC AP Lang” would mean that she got a D first semester and a C second semester in English 10 Honors and is now taking AP Lang. As noted by several posters, in order to chance her we need to have an overview of the transcript. Start with the HS taken in middle school since it’ll also help us evaluate the progression.

English
Math
History/social science
Science
Foreign Language
Other
Other
Other

3 Likes
40

She should take them as a HS senior. I understand the financial hit is probably big but you’d likely be forsaking $300,000 in scholarships from MFN colleges to save ~10k.

Rushing through NearbyStateU’s major where she only has a few classes to take then on to Grad school doesn’t sound ideal for a teenager.
She also doesn’t seem emotionally ready for grad school (even if it may seem she is academically).

As a full Pell applicant she has a big hook. Not sufficient to erase the Cs and Ds but that+paragraph in italics from GC would go a long way toward making some of the generous meet need colleges a possibility vs.impossible. Other factors that would impact: how uncommon your state is for that particular MFN college (Wyoming, NE, WV.. tend to be underrepresented about anywhere; other states very; some are over represented), possibly girl in STEM, any work done at NearbyStateU (esp.research) that relates to that field.

What major is she interested in (if hyper specialized and concerned about privacy, indicate general field)?
What are the advanced courses taken in relation to that field?
Will she have recommendations from a professor from NearbyStateU in her field of interest? (She’d need to cultivate it&ask the researcher if she’s involved in any relevant research project or enrolled in any relevant class.) A letter of recommendation from a colleague in the field she’s intending to pursue would also help her a lot.
If not she really should be enrolled or find a way to get involved next semester.

1 Like