Honestly I don’t think Smith is a viable option. It is a school for very serious students and I don’t think this GPA reflects a serious student at this time. I’d put the selectivity a lot higher and work on getting very good grades with an eye towards transferring if the goal is a prestigous school. I am sure this student is plenty smart, but grades are the most important part of the application. With all the talk around the predictive nature of standardized tests, alone they are not impressive.
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The student has a 3.8 GPA (+a 36 ACT from MS, likely 1500PSAT).
The issue is 5 grades from sophomore year.
I know, but the 36 ACT will not impress Smith. Ds are going to make an impact. I don’t think you get into Smith with Ds.
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I think a 3.8 with A/Bs is much different than a transcript with C/Ds.
I’m also in the camp that it would help to better understand the context of these grade if the OP listed the course that got the Cs/Ds and if they were quarter or semester classes.
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I’m not really understanding the GPA calc tbh. This student is a junior currently with a 4.0 in 9th and a 3.07 in 10th. How does that get to 3.8 uw GPA? Do high school courses taken before 9th get factored into the GPA calc? (At our school they don’t - they are just listed as credit on the transcript but without grades.) How do colleges generally look at this?
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I think OP said HS classes taken in MS “count”, which I assume is how they got to that GPA.
I agree @momofboiler1 that a 3.8 GPA with A/Bs is different from the current situation. But we need more details before we can categorically say the generous full need colleges are off limits and OP’s xhild has no shot whatsoever. (At least now we know it was due to not turning in assignments, not actually failing them.)
Brilliant kids who flame out when in a different environment and get back on their feet can be viewed very differently depending on circumstances and recovery. That’s why I’m more concerned about the current schedule and the future schedule (+ any 2E testing).
I’m also very reluctant to say 5 bad grades would completely alter a student’s path and pretty much make her graduate college at 19 when not emotionally ready then off to grad school (the only alternative to the meet need colleges is to finish at NearbyStateU.)
But that depends on the actual record, especially this year and next.
Think of it this way:
Student got a D then a C in Multivariate Calculus in 10th grade.
Takes Differential Equations and another calculus class in 11th grade at a state college. Gets an A.
Takes Real Analysis in 12th, gets an A-.
The 10th grade results wouldn’t matter much.
However if the student got a D then a C in Multivariate Calculus in 10th grade then takes no more advanced math in 11th.. then it’s a death knell.
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OP mentioned some of the Ds were in core humanities - how would colleges look at that? What are the implications if these are not remediated - it’s not like math (as far as I understand) where a more advanced later course can effectively overcome a poorer earlier grade, or is it? It would help to understand exactly what these courses were, but OP seems reluctant to elaborate on which courses the Ds were on.
And re MS courses counting - would all colleges follow that if the school does or might some have their own way of recalculating?
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I don’t see Carleton, Hamilton or WF being realistic with D’s and a bunch of C’s. Even if the D’s were in gym or art class, they are there and they don’t look good. Upward trajectories are great, but unless this student is ticking some boxes those colleges need to fill, I think it’s very unlikely.
Why? Then she isn’t applying as a freshman, when the best merit awards are offered as an enticement. If state u is a strong possibility, by all means, go for it. But you seem to be focused on selective LACs. It’s a bad idea to take regular college classes. She will then be a transfer, and transfers do not get anywhere near the same kind of financial incentives.
The state you live in might be helpful, as a lot of colleges seek geographic diversity. This student could consider schools like Clark, Denison, Dickinson, Gettysburg, maybe F & M, Ithaca, Muhlenberg, Marist, and similar to have a better shot at receiving good merit aid. I think Whitman in Washington state is worth a shot. Maybe Connecticut College, Skidmore, Oberlin, or Union as reaches.
I personally think your attention should be focused on colelges from these two lists:
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Based on what we know so far, I would hesitate to recommend academically intense schools like Carleton, Oberlin, Smith etc. Again, based on limited info sounds like those might be not too dissimilar from the vibe where OP spent 10th grade. They aren’t likely to overlook the C’s and D’s anyway.
There is so much we don’t know here. I would encourage the parents to help their student set herself up for success, as much as is possible. It starts with understanding the root cause(s) of what happened and then everyone honestly assessing what types of schools will be the best fit for this student.
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And how does the student herself feel about this? I am hoping that she is aware how common it is for exceptionally gifted students, with or without ADHD, to experience something similar . I am sure it will make her feel less alone in her situation.
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To me this is pretty simple and I don’t think there needs to be over analyzing vs. having a strategy.
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You can apply to the schools that meet need, assuming you run the NPC and it shows they’ll be $20K and less. Will you get in? I don’t know. But I know you won’t get in if you don’t apply!! But two issues here- the hardest schools are need blind. The easier (and not easy schools) are need aware. So a Lafayette or Franklin & Marshall might admit you academically, but if they determine your need is, let’s say, $15K - they might not admit you because you need too much money. So I’d find a mix of a few need blind and a few need aware that hit - and roll the dice. Lehigh could make sense - they are need blind (for the vast majority they say) and not the most competitive for admissions.
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If you get NMSF, Tulsa is a done deal and a fine school. If you progress, more options open - many more - Alabama is your best deal - better than Tulsa but UTD, Houston, some of the Florida schools and more have free tuition. Maybe U of Nebraska, etc. Bama requires a 3.5 - so check if that’s weighted or unweighted. You can email to ask
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W Carolina is about $20K-ish OOS and there’s a few more NC Promise Schools. You can google the term. Central Michigan is about $28K but depending on - it appears the unweighted GPA, she can get cost down to $20K-ish or maybe a tad above. I put a link below.
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I will run counter to many on the Associates Degree - and I think it depends on how many college credits you are given. If you get two years credit, now your budget can be $40K or one year credit, your budget can be $27K (so Central Michigan works) - so that’s another way to look at things. Many more schools potentially become possible because of the AA degree.
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If none of these appeal, then there’s the local school OP mentioned.
I don’t think you’ve given enough for anyone to answer you but I think these are the options and I’d pursue them all, including #1. The worst that will happen is they’ll say no - but I wouldn’t just assume it.
The bigger issue to me is - does your student have the maturity, education or understanding to manage their time better. A 36 ACT and poor grades tells you something. I’m not a parent to understand how this works but on other threads parents would suggest a student like this get tested for learning disabilities or other things - so perhaps there is something causing this separation of test to grades?
Best of luck
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I understand that you want to protect your daughter’s privacy, but the reality is no one can give you good advice without at the very least a basic understanding of her transcript. Right now it sounds like you’re weighing middle school grades into her GPA which could be an issue in really evaluating her chances. I am also VERY concerned that she is taking no STEM classes her junior year. Both my kids took Calc BC as sophomores, so I get the struggle with finding the right classes to progress. But this situation of advanced classes early, jumping into a rigorous public school and struggling and then jumping back to easier school and only taking humanities classes is going to be rough for the selective meet full needs schools. I can only post based on what you’ve shared.
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Not to mention the student may really need to find a school with a flexible curriculum and less emphasis on humanities than some of these LACs. Requirements like foreign language or intense writing can be differentiators when finding the right fit for a twice exceptional kid.
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I would do following in your situation:
- Take all DE classes credits
- Go to local college
- Enroll her part time
- Continue with part time, so she will not graduate earlier than her peers
- Let her work several years after Bachelor program to assess does she even need Masters.
- Do not rush. Try capitalize on her strength. And do not participate in “neighborhood” competition: “My smart kid is in Harvard or in UMICH. “
- Priorities your daughter happiness and mental health.
- She probably is good in smth she enjoys very much and can’t force herself to do smth she hates… Try to find program to address that. MAX favorite subjects, min classes that she would hate.
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Do 3 C’s = “a bunch”?
What does this mean? I posted what the selectivity is. It is what is is.
I’m concerned to see posters throwing around terms like ADHD and questioning the student’s motivation and overall mental health. I’m a retired school psychologist and I would never, ever attempt to diagnose or even suggest such diagnoses from random and incomplete facts posted on the internet.
To the OP, I would say, please ignore such comments about your daughter. You know her, the school faculty and staff know her, and posters here don’t. In fact, they’ve never met her. Please don’t take such comments seriously.
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In the end, why not cover all bases. Selective to non selective, hit all that get to budget.
And hope NMSF and/or NMF happen.
This way the guessing is gone.
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Or is it 4 HS quarters of grades for one class making the final transcript grade like a B - B+… In which case, I dont think nearly as detrimental as OP is portraying? I would be most worried about going from easy school to hard rigorous school and bombing and going back to easy school for good grades? Also without knowing schools, state, or reputation, hard to guess as each college does know and has their own ways of reformulating grades and rigor according to the HS and course from wence they came. I agree that no college looks at anything prior to grade 9 and we know specifics about zero things…
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I’m not going to speculate here… but if it were my kid, I’d want to know why this happened. This sounds like a smart enough student…but there are some issues if items did not get turned in…or even were turned in late. Or were completed and not turned in.
Frankly, college will always be there. Your student will be expected to independently complete and turn in all assignments…and attend classes.
I would want to get to the root of the problem so that it doesn’t repeat itself when this student is independently at college.
So…if you haven’t already done so, I would find out the why. And what can be done to help in the future (not by just going to an easier school).
There are plenty of very very very smart students who understand the academics, but have difficulty completing assigned work, or organizing. These are life skills your student needs to have.
College will always be there.
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