Let me clarify, I was shocked the new mom was out with her baby because i was such a wuss after child birth and wasn’t going anywhere unless necessary. However the point of my post was, of course newborn babies are exposed to people other than family members and one of the many reasons vaccination are so important.
As far as babies being out in public: it’s not just not just tiny babies. Kids aren’t fully vaccinated for a few YEARS on the usual schedule. Many vaccines require multiple doses. A child who has had one shot will have some immunity but is still more at risk.
Chinese custom is that for the 1st 30 days, mom and baby are supposed to stay home, to protect them. Mom is exhausted and depleted and baby is still mostly vulnerable, even if getting some antibodies from nursing. Yes, it does take years for kids to complete the full vaccination schedule but SO important for the protection of the kid and society!
I stayed home when I had my DD. But we had lots of friends visit who wanted to meet the baby. And many of them had young children.
I was delighted to see them. It never crossed my mind that I was endangering my baby.(who WAS immunized on schedule)
I won’t be posting any more on this thread, as I’ll end up with jail-bars most likely if I do (realistically, I just don’t have the time, I have a life you know). If you haven’t happened to have ignored me and actually want my responses (don’t worry, I know most of you don’t), PM me.
I find it amazing that no one cares about or defends the kid who is irreparably damaged by a vaccine, and there have been many. Over a hundred have dropped dead after the Gardasil debacle, last I read, and it is probably more now. Loads of money has been paid out by the Vaccine Injury Compensation Fund that was put into place so pharmaceutical companies could exempt themselves from all responsibility for their often barely tested drugs.
Some are only interested in some illusion of protection for themselves and just screw your kid, if he happens to be susceptible. They are perfectly willing to sacrifice someone else’s kid to maintain their illusions. That’s truly selfish thinking.
This decision belongs decisively with the parents in conjunction with the child’s medical provider and no one else. No person or organization should have any ability to penalize anyone else for making medical decisions. Do what is right for you and your family.
Interestingly,quite frequently, the already vaccinated are getting sick in new outbreaks. How gullible people are, for buying the ever-increasing, “more is better” vaccine mentality. “Oh, the MMR (or pick your poison) didn’t work? Well, have another one! Oh, that didn’t work either? Well, have another one every 5 years!” Good Lord.
I’ve got no dog in this fight personally, but geez. I can’t believe the hypocrisy that I continually read on this topic.
The immune-compromised are just as able to get sick from a freshly vaccinated person who is shedding, than some never-vaccinated grandma or grandpa. You do realize that everywhere you go, there are people of previous generations who never had half the stuff they are pushing today and never got ill (or got it early and are now immune)?
You aren’t going to get sick from a person who isn’t sick. You are only at risk from someone who has an active infection or the replication of one.
^ I would have loved to stay home, but all 3 of my kids were adopted out of state and the Interstate Compact required us to stay in motel rooms until the courts cleared us to go home. Try staying in one room with a toddler, a preschooler and a newborn infant; the kids without most of their stuff, only a microwave and mini-fridge for cooking, and a communal paid laundry facility two buildings away. That’s a whole lotta fun. Good things the munchkins were worth it!
I don’t have a vaccine damaged kid, but I know some who do.
Other people are perfectly fine with sacrificing that other person’s dispensable kid, so long as 1) it isn’t their kid, and 2) they can believe they are “protected”, which may or may not be true at all, given the sharp increase in disease in vaccinated populations. I think that is an ugly mindset to endanger that kid. Sure, people always argue that he can get a medical exemption, but it is pretty clear that this is almost impossible to do, as no doctor wants to be “that guy” that goes against popular medical wisdom of the time.
Let’s flip your question: What will your kid say to you if he is brain-damaged from a vaccine? Rare, but it does happen, same as the possibility for the kid to get some disease that we vaccinate against today.
It is incumbent upon the parents and that kid’s doctor to make these decisions, given a particular child. No one else is in a position to know of any weaknesses.
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm#jeixiaro
According to the American Cancer Society,
In 2016 about 12,990 new cases of invasive cervical cancer will be diagnosed. About 4,120 women will die in 2016 from cervical cancer. 70% of cervical cancer cases are attributable to HPV.
About 4,620 new cases of vaginal cancer will be diagnosed. About 950 women will die in 2016 of this cancer. 70% of vaginal cancers are attributable to HPV.
About 5,950 cancers of the vulva will be diagnosed. About 1,110 women will die in 2016 of this cancer. 50% of vulvar cancer are attributable to HPV.
Survivorship bias. You don’t know grandma’s or grandpa’s siblings or friends who died of vaccine-preventable diseases when there were no vaccines for them, because they died long before you were born.
It doesn’t really matter what you believe “should” or should not be allowed to happen. Decisions can be made to apply consequences for failure to follow medical guidelines when they endanger the public health. People can be quarantined when they refuse treatment for contagious diseases. Public schools, as well as privates, can refuse to enroll non vaccinated children where the law allows. Whether you like it or not.
No one is ever “forced” to take a vaccine. But that sure as heck does not mean that there will be no consequences.
Oh, don’t worry. It’s happening.
http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/47/11/1458.full
http://www.eurosurveillance.org/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleId=20998
And lots and lots of people didn’t survive. Take a walk around an old New England cemetery and you’ll be shocked by the number of teeny tiny headstones.
Oy. I’m out of here.
.Really. What is it about vaccinations that brings out the lunatic fringe?
Once more… with vigor… medical historian here…
** That’s because they died before you could know them and you know the lucky few who survived. **
I work with their medical and death records. One of the places I study was a TB sanitarium. Want to know how many children made it out of there alive?
Seriously, is this conversation for real? Do people not understand what childhood mortality rates were in our grandparent and great-grandparents’ time?
This is ridiculous. I’m with VH, I’m out.
I am friends with people who are anti-vaxxers, and a common thread that runs through their argument is control over their destiny and distrust of the government and/or big pharma.
@romanigypsyeyes can attest to our government’s shameful past in involuntarily sterilizing people (I believe she’s working on a project that looks at the records kept), and we all know pharmaceutical companies have committed egregious evil with regards to profit and marking up the price of essential drugs.
The problem becomes when some people apply that metric to all areas of health and wellness. When ALL drugs become evil and the government is consistently “Big Brother” in their eyes, they lose the ability to make rational, fact-based decisions because they reject everything that is not empirical or within their perceived control.
This is where the disconnect really is, in my opinion. Anti-vaxxers truly believe they are doing the right thing by their children, because their belief is based on their perceptions.
In my particular case, I believed that it was better for my kids to be vaccinated for each disease, one at a time (no combination shots), and only when they were perfectly healthy, to give their immune system a chance to make the best antibody reaction. The vaccination schedule, along with your oil change schedule in your car, was not developed for maximum efficacy, but for maximum compliance. Nobody knows if doing 16 different vaccinations on a 9 month old baby creates as effective or as long-lasting protection levels as doing it the way I did it for both of my daughters. I have a pediatrician who was willing to do this for me, because it did not put his other patients at risk.
However, the trade-off between my beliefs and exposing the girls to harm was minimal. It took a bit longer for them to be fully vaccinated, but they are. I also wanted to wait for them to get the HPV shots because there have been several incidents of girls developing juvenile rheumatoid arthritis in the growth plates when given the vaccine before they are done growing. Additionally, it tends to wear off at 19 when first given at 12. So, they’re getting it at 17 or when they are ready to become sexually active (actually before, it takes about 5 months for maximum efficacy).
The reason I’m going into detail here is to discuss that we understand that vaccines are not a silver bullet, and that we do not 100% understand how the immune system work, but to practice avoidance and the mis-perceived idea that you can “control” exposure to diseases is just not safe for either the kid in question or the people they come into contact with.
Yup. I specialize in Eugenics in the US and am the data manager for a project that is digitizing the patient records of tens of thousands of people who were involuntarily sterilized by the state/US in the name of pseudo-science.
I absolutely, 100% understand the distrust of many communities who were screwed over by national and state level health officials.
But these aren’t the people that shy away from vaccines. The ones who do are the most privileged in our society- white, educated, generally upper class. People who come from communities who have been coddled by the medical system for generations. The people who were protected from the horrors of illness and disease because they were able to lock away their “defective” family members- a luxury the poor did not have.
Clearly this has veered WAYYY off base from the original OP question. Deleting those posts that related to abortion as violating the Terms of Service, although no warnings will be issued in this case. I cannot imagine one side being persuaded to agree with the other side in this case.